Movie poster of Special Unit

You’ve heard of ACAB, now meet ACAD — all cops are disabled!

A screwball comedy that imagines a world in which equality legislation requires the LAPD to hire disabled cops, Special Unit attempts to set a record for the most flagrant use of the r-word in a film. Despite its attempt to offend, perhaps the greatest sin of this film is not the potty language but the reality that it is just not a good movie by any stretch of the imagination. Sar and Jeff are joined this month by guest victim and award-winning poet, Liv Mammone, to try and unpack this tangled mess of disability, policing, and political (in)correctness!

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Grading the Film

As always, this film is reviewed with scores recorded in four main categories, with 1 being the best and 5 being the worst. Like the game of golf, the lower the score the better.

How accurate is the representation?

Liv – 4.7 / 5

sar – 2.5 / 5

Jeff – 3.5 / 5

Total – 10.7 / 15

How difficult was it to watch the movie?

Liv – 4 / 5

sar – 5 / 5

Jeff – 5 / 5

Total – 14 / 15

How often were things unintentionally funny?

Liv – .5 / 5

sar – 2.5 / 5

Jeff – 1 / 5

Total – 4 / 15

How far back has it put disabled people?

Liv – 3.5 / 5

sar – 2 / 5

Jeff – 4 / 5

Total – 9.5 / 15

The Verdict

Crimes Have Been Committed

Transcript – Part 1

Jeff:

Hi friends, Jeff here. This month’s film and by extension, the next two episodes come with a big content warning ahead. You will hear on several occasions a harmful word colloquially referred to as the R word that has been used to invalidate disabled people for a very long time. There’s also an above average number of swear words in these episodes. Kind of related kind of not. While we have tried to avoid using the R word when possible, there are moments in this podcast where it couldn’t be avoided, and for that we are sorry. If you are not in a space right now to hear this type of content, this film and next two episodes might not be for you. That’s okay. Don’t worry. You’re not missing anything by taking a little break. Before we go on, we also felt that it was important to note that contrary to what folks may argue, the R word is absolutely connected to histories of medical labeling that have been used to invalidate the personhood of disabled people.

And it is these histories that animate its use to this present day. You cannot refer to someone or something as an R word without evoking this connection and perpetuated the belief that people with cognitive disabilities are less than saying, I didn’t mean it that way. Doesn’t change this what you mean pales in comparison to what it means to others and maybe even more importantly, what it presents as natural or uncontested willfully. Continuing to use this word makes you at best, complicit and ableism and at worst, a failure of a human being. Our languages are filled with millions of colorful ways to disrespect people. So maybe let’s commit to using words that don’t rely on de-legitimizing metaphors of our brothers and sisters, just to make a joke. Be nice to each other, even if this podcast is really not about nice things.

[The trailer for Special Unit plays to open the episode]

Jeff:

You are listening to Invalid Culture, a podcast dedicated to excavating the strangest and most baffling media representations of disability. This podcast is all about staring into the abyss of pop culture adjacent films that never quite broke through because well, they’re just awful. So buckle up folks. The following content is rated I for invalid.

[Mvll Crimes song, “Arguing With Strangers” plays]:

I’m argue wing with strangers on the internet, not going out today because I’m feeling too upset, argue wing with strangers on the internet and I’m winning.

Jeff:

Welcome back to another thrilling edition of Invalid Culture. As always, I am your host, Jeff Preston, and I’m joined by co-host. Sarah, how are you doing?

sar:

Straight out of the hells of avernus because it’s 44 with the humid X today. How are you, Jeff?

Jeff:

You know it. I’m feeling just as hot as this movie is. It’s fitting that we are living in a literal hellscape and we had to watch this movie.

sar:

It’s true. It’s also straight out of avernus.

Jeff:

We are not the only ones of course who had to watch the movie. We are joined as always by a very special guest, a very fitting special guest. Actually, given the movie that we’re talking about this week or this month, we thought we should get a poet on to the show because only a poet could actually unpack this. I think so we are joined today by Liv Mammone. She is an editor and poet from Long Island. Her poetry has appeared with Button Poetry, the Poetry Foundation, medical Journal of Australia and many other places. In 2017, she competed for the Union Square Slam as the first disabled woman to be on a New York National Poetry Slam team. That’s pretty amazing. Liv was also a finalist in the Capturing Fire National Poetry Slam 2017 Brooklyn Poets Fellow Ze Glossier fellow. She’s also currently editor at Game Over Books and in 2022, lib had one of the most red poems at splitting this rock’s poetry database to worry her first collection, which will be about 18,000 times better than the movie that we watched is coming out in 2025. Liv, welcome to the pod.

Liv:

Hi. I am so delighted to be here, and yes, even with all my imposter syndrome, I can genuinely say the book will be at least 18 to 20,000 times better than the movie that we just watched. No amount of imposter syndrome can take this away from me.

sar:

Liv, do you ever get physically exhausted by the amount of awards per year you win? Do you ever just go home covered in Taylor Swift style Grammys and you’re like, I literally cannot carry them all?

Liv:

That’s very sweet of you. Yeah, no. Actually, that bio is actually the crst thing about me. I sent Jeff the bio because we’re not as close as some of Jeff’s other friends who have appeared on this podcast. So I emailed Jeff and I was like, do you want a bio? And I always feel so cringey sending the bio to people. It does actually sound like I have a career as opposed to just sitting at home in my house telling people when they get commas wrong in their sentences and telling them when they’ve been ableist, which is kind of my job. The book basically is just stuff that able-bodied people have said to me in publics, kind of what I do for a living is just look at people and be like, you’re never going to believe what happened to me today. I was actually really nervous to come here because I was like, oh, they’ve had Lawrence Carter Long on this podcast who I actually think is a brilliant man, and I’m like, oh, they’ve had some really smart people on this pod. I’m not a film person. I don’t know how to talk about movies really. And then I watched this movie and I was like, I’m good.

sar:

Don’t worry Liv. They also have me on this podcast, so it evens out, right?

Liv:

No, you’re so smart. No, I’m not going to do what I did to you off mic and shower you with compliments, but you are so, so insightful and I am so excited to get to talk to you about this terrible movie.

Jeff:

Well, Liv, I’ll tell you, the good news is you are not the only person who’s not a film person. Christopher Titus is also not a film person, and they are the ones who created our film. This month we watched the baffling film Special Unit. Now for those of you who have not watched Special Unit from the Box, this is the description of this movie due to the Fairness and Disabilities Act, the Van Nuys PD is forced to hire four handicapped undercover detectives and their training officer happens to be the worst cop in Los Angeles. Now, Sarah, would you say that’s an accurate description of what happens this film

sar:

Compared to the other descriptions of other films you’ve made me watch? This one’s actually phenomenally accurate.

Jeff:

I actually agree this. I’ve never seen a more accurate description. That’s exactly what happens in this movie.

Liv:

Yeah, summed up. Summed up very well, very succinct. Yeah. Again, not to jump too far ahead, this movie could have been 40 minutes long. It’s an hour and 40 minutes long, and just with that summary, it’s like this movie could have been 45 minutes and we wouldn’t have lost anything.

Jeff:

Oh, easily. I think when we started watching this movie before we watched it, I said to Sarah, oh yeah, I think that’s an 88 minute, 90 minute in and out. Wham bam. No, it is not friends. It is almost two hours that you will never get back.

Liv:

So freaking long.

sar:

Couple movies have been longer actually.

Liv:

Yes, The Hill was very long. I checked the runtime on that one too and I was like, man, that’s long. It’s not. It’s too much. That’s more than I would invest.

Jeff:

It’s far too much.

sar:

Not all of y’all are Martin Scorsese

Liv:

Really truly. Even Martin Scorsese sometimes is not Martin Scorsese. There’s no need for those movies to be that long.

Jeff:

Absolutely, absolutely. Now it’s fitting me via, the tagline for this movie was Surrender Before They Hurt themselves, which I think gives us a bit of a sense of what type of movie we’re getting ourselves into. This movie has been described as a screwball comedy. It feels very much like Family Guy, kind of edgy. We’re going to say offensive words and it’s going to be funny. I think that was kind of what they were trying to go for, but the movie has also, bafflingly won several awards. It won the best actor, David Filioni won best actor in a feature film at the Chicago Comedy Film Festival Second City. What are you doing?

Liv:

I feel bad for, I don’t want to cut down one of my own because that actor is disabled and I don’t want to Good for him, but also, oh my God, why? What? Really not even Debbie Carrington. Okay,

Jeff:

Sure. Nope. It also won the best comedy feature at the Los Angeles Film Awards and it won the jury prize Best Direction award at the Hope Film Awards. Now, the website for that award has not updated since 2017, which means that in my opinion, Christopher Titus is the undisputed uncontested champion of the Hope Film Awards now of seven years running. As far as I know,

Liv:

Viewers, you can’t see how far my jaw is actually away from the top of my face listening to the fact that this won awards. Wow, guys,

Jeff:

It won multiple awards. The film itself is dedicated to James Troesh. They are a quadriplegic actor writer. They passed away in 2011 and thus we’re not required to be in or watch this film, an early version of the script. This is…okay, are you guys sitting down? Everyone needs to be sitting down. If you are listening to this and you’re in a car–pullover. An early version of this script was designed as a pilot for TV and it was directed by Brian Cranston.

Liv:

What? Oh my God. Yeah. I want that so badly. I want to see it. I want to see what Brian Cranston did to this. I have so many questions.

Jeff:

So by my account, Brian Cranston now owes the disabled community for two pieces of crap that he has been involved in.

Liv:

I was going to say, wasn’t there. The other one as well that I haven’t watched that the in

Jeff:

Intouchables, yea

Liv:

That version of the French film that he made. Yeah. He still owes us for that one as well.

Jeff:

Yeah, Brian owes us for that. He owes us for this. We’ll give him Breaking Bad, but he’s still behind. So Brian, if you’re listening, you owe us.

Liv:

You owe us. Sorry dude.

Jeff:

Yeah. So who is actually responsible for this movie? Brian Cranston was not directly responsible for this movie. It is predominantly the responsibility of a writer director, comedian Christopher Titus, who’s been kind of all over the B movie circuit. Most notably Christopher Titus was in the class cult classic Tiller Clowns from Outer Space. He also appeared in one episode of 21 Jump Street. He also appeared in an episode of Colombo and an episode of the Twilight Zone reboot. He also has written and starred in his own television series titled Titus, which was nominated for a daytime Emmy, did not win and won the 2003 Excellence in Production Design award for the Art Directors Guild. It should also be noted though before we move forward that this is not the first time that Tida has got involved in disability, in fact, and one of his very popular standup specials.

Liv:

Oh, good. I’m so glad we get to talk about this. I’m so glad we get to talk about this.

Jeff:

We’re going to talk about “Voice in my head”. Titus goes on a bit of a rant about the R word stating that he does not believe the R word is actually associated with disabled people. For instance, he thinks that disabled people like Oscar Pistorius are advanced. I do not know if this joke was made before or after Oscar Pistorius murdered his wife. Rather, he defines “retarded” as quote, “it means you were born a certain way, you were born a certain level, but you didn’t live up to that. You were behind where you should have been and goes on to say that if you have everything working perfectly, you have all your facilities about you, you end up addicted to crystal meth and living under a bridge, you are effing retarded.”

Liv:

So a definition that no other person uses. Great, good. So he’s invented his own definition for why he’s allowed to say this word. No other person who’s ever used this word has used it in this context. Okay. Alright. Titus. Alright. Right.

sar:

I don’t want to attribute it solely to him because he’s using a manifestation of that word that was around quite a bit when I was growing up. So late nineties, early two thousands. That’s pretty much what it meant. He’s right about that, but we were all wrong. Right now, I think one of the filling words for that now might be just working class, all the stereotypes associated with people who live their entire lives below the poverty line, which would include me, but I also feel like the original definition included me. So Christopher Titus just made a career out of being a slightly less funny and worse looking. Joel McHale with terrible disability writer.

Liv:

Thank you so much. I was actually going to say he’s trying so hard to be Joel McHale in this movie. It is wild to me. I now having watched community, I actually, the reason that I picked this film is because I am a tightest fan girl. Really. His standups were really, really important to me when I was 1920 in college and when I saw that he made this film, I love him and I love Billy Cardell, so I didn’t have a lot of hope, but I was like, okay, how cancelable are these two guys going to be at the end of this hour and 40 minutes? How offended am I going to walk away? Really, really feeling bad about my affinity for Christopher Titus’s work at the end of this 40 minutes, and that’s why I really wanted to watch this. I went in kind of with this very graceful, I don’t think this is going to be made with bad intent because I know this is kind of titus’s thing.

He has a lot of jokes in his standup about his disabled friends, comedians of his who are disabled, who have done things that he thinks are really, really funny. I was like, okay, I don’t think this is made with bad intention. Let’s see how badly they missed the mark. It’s not like I went in saying it was going to be a good movie. I just was like, alright, let’s just see how bad the misfire is because I don’t actually think that Titus is trying to make fun of me. I genuinely don’t believe that. I genuinely do not believe that he is trying to, it’s not like watching Family Guy where I’m like, I genuinely think that people who make the show hate disabled people and are trying to make

Disabled people. What I do think at the end of this movie, not to jump too far ahead, is the Titus is deeply confused about his feelings about disabled people and really just wants to be able to say the ar slur with impunity and has made an entire hour and 40 minute movie about why he should get to do that and that’s what this movie is. I really think that that’s just what the whole point of this was, that he just really wants to get to say the ar slur you guys just really a lot. So

Jeff:

It’s okay. It’s a funny word apparently.

Liv:

It’s a funny word.

Jeff:

Yeah. So I bring this quote up because we’re going to circle back to this exact conversation in a moment. Before we do though, who else was in this film? Well, that’s right. Sports fans. We have for the first time ever on invalid culture, we have a back-to-back appearance, a repeat offender on our podcast, and that is Debbie Lee Carrington who plays Sophie. You may remember her as Kitty Kats in tiptoes, but more likely you will recognize her from pretty much every pop culture thing of the eighties and nineties, including appearances on Harry, the Hendersons Seinfeld, Baywatch in the Color, the Drew Carey Show, married with Children was also in movies. This is True Life Returned of the Jedi, Batman Returns and Men in Black, but more than that, most of you probably remember her as Thumbalina in Total Recall.

sar:

I was going to say, how did you do that list without total recall? Come on!

Jeff:

Yeah.

Liv:

I want to talk to Debbie Harrington so bad after watching this movie. I have so many questions I want to sit down on. You have a discussion. I really, I want to have a discussion so bad. It’s like, oh my God.

Jeff:

Debbie has had a genuinely incredible career and in no way deserves to be tortured by movies like Tiptoes a special unit. So Debbie, get help. Please, please. So our fan favorite in Chicago apparently for whatever that is worth is David Figlioni who plays the artistic savant Alvin. As far as I can tell, David does not identify as disabled. I looked everywhere. I don’t see any description of this. Figlinoi has made a lot of appearances in television. He was on an episode of Brooklyn nine nine. He was in an episode of Mom. He was also in Penny Dreadful. He also apparently has been in over 100 national television commercials, which is amazing, but even more amazing Canadian connection. He did a three year international tour as a circus clown for Cirque de Soleil.

Liv:

Oh my God, yes. I want it so much. I need to see it.

Jeff:

It makes a lot of sense actually. When you think about the character, there was definitely some clowning going on with the Alvin character.

Liv:

I suppose the one thing I will say is that he’s having a great time this actor, regardless of what I have to say about the performance, which is we’ll get to it. I have a lot to say about it. He’s having a ball and you can tell, and I really hope that everybody on this movie had a good time. This goes back to what I was saying about I don’t think this movie is made with ill intent. I really genuinely feel that this movie thinks it’s funny and thinks it’s trying to say something different and interesting, and I really hope that everybody on the movie had a good time because I did not have a good time watching it, and it’s only saving Grace is if the people making it had a good time because we obviously didn’t, so I hope

Jeff:

So. It was a bad time. It was a bad time.

Liv:

It was a bad time.

Jeff:

Yeah. Our stuttering cop with Cerebral Palsy, Morgin, it is played by Michael Aronin. Now, Michael Aronin is an actually disabled dude who does a combination of motivational speaking and comedy from his speaker’s Bureau website. It says Michael speaks about what it is growing up with the disabled in an able-bodied world and of the importance of Believe it in ourselves of building and maintaining a support system and of the crucial role humor and attitude can play in our lives. Michael will tell you his only disability is losing his hair at an early age.

Liv:

Okay, that’s funny.

Jeff:

That paragraph comes two paragraphs after a paragraph, which says that his disability is cerebral palsy. So I think she actually has two disabilities, cerebral palsy and losing his hair

Liv:

Yeah, I get very cynical about stuff like this. I get very cynical about the only disability is a bad attitude. It’s like, nah. Especially as I’m getting older and I’m getting sicker, I’m kind of like, ah, I don’t know. Dude, I have some questions.

Jeff:

Yeah. Oh, for sure. Our foursomes rounded out with conspiracy seat theorist, wheelchair user, Mac, who was played by Tobias Forest is also actually disabled, uses a wheelchair in real life, whatever that means, and has probably most famously appeared in an episode of How To Get Away With Murder in 2014. He also, however, wrote and appears in a fairly successful 14 minute indie film called Dead End Drive, which is a zombie movie. You could watch it on YouTube that picked up a bunch of festival awards in 2020 and 2021. So presumably scorned by not winning any awards for his turn in this movie, he went and did it himself and won way more awards with that end drive. So you could check that out.

As you can probably imagine, there was not a lot of critical response to this film. There are no reviews on Rotten Tomatoes that you could access. So I had to go a little deeper in. I did, however, find two fairly detailed reviews of this film, one which was quite positive and one that hated it, and that’s the one that I want to talk about. So Flinthart wrote on a website called Mutant Reviewers Movies, which is a great name for our website. Flint Hart was not a fan of the film, basically wrote a dissertation about this movie. It is the longest review I’ve ever seen. It is extremely angry from the review. Flinthart says, quote, bottom line, the movie is one long string of R word jokes and what kind of solace, sociopathic idiot figured you could mount a premise like that for comedy while still somehow respecting the people whose disabilities underpin every single joke that made it to the screen.

Liv:

Ding, ding, ding. Yeah, this is definitely what I walked away from this movie with, but better stated.

Jeff:

Well, unfortunately, not everyone walked away with that opinion because if you scroll to the bottom of this review, you will discover that Christopher Titus has jumped into the comment section and replied to the review.

Liv:

He’s a reply guy. Oh, delightful.

Jeff:

Okay, so here’s Christopher Titus’s review to the review quote. This is a quote folks, I did not say this. There are some swearing, so plug your ears quote you piece of shit you think these actors didn’t read and approve the script. They did that. They didn’t know what it was. My friends are disabled. They get fucked over by Hollywood on the Daily. I made a promise to Michael Arman that I will get this made disabled people with power, not the normal sage of the wheelchair or cripple that needs to be protected. So fuck you and your review. I have parents who have thanked me for the vision and inspiration their disabled children have been given because of my $3,000 film. You’re a shit reviewer with the insight of a blind air light pilot fuck off. Sincerely, Christopher Titus.

sar:

That’s an incredible review

Liv:

It’s a rich text

sar:

I want to agree with it, but I also kind of disagree. How do I want to say this? I have a nuanced opinion on this and I’m trying to say it non offensively. I think that Christopher Titus’s goal here was an in-crowd film by disabled people for disabled people that wanted to do kind of the quid pro quo thing of making up what he felt the in-crowd would be and do and act like. And it’s possible that between him and his friends, this really is his day-to-Day and his day-to-Day and disability culture is just late eighties, early nineties. Constant slander and unenlightened opinions and really derivative thinking about Crip culture and I accept that and I think he is kind of trying to defend that Crip culture isn’t any one thing by saying, fuck you, you piece of shit. But if you read between the lines of that to hear super generously, I think I can create or co-create what Crip culture looks like.

For me. It’s an overly generous review of what Christopher Titus is trying to do, but I don’t think the movie is entirely guilty of just being full on parody. I think there are elements of it that you can pull out of it where there’s a little more nuance and that can explain things like why most of this cast is disabled and why Brian Cranston wanted to direct, but what we came out with in the end is hard to defend and that makes this opinion really difficult to say out loud. You hear what I mean here?

Liv:

Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much, Sarah, because this is what I mean when I said I have a little bit of grace for Titus going into this movie. I wanted to do this movie because I actually really like Titus and really respect him and actually was thinking of getting a tattoo of something that he said in his most recent standup. This is our relationship is serious. We have a relationship. Christopher Titus and I do actually believe that this is how he talks to his disabled friends and his friends have given him the go ahead about this. I think that that is genuinely true, and as somebody who I am not the most politically correct person, I have a very, very dark sense of humor if I know you and love you. My non-disabled friends have made jokes about me that have made me cry laughing that if you ever said them in public, people would beat my friends in the street.

Really just genuinely terrible. My whole barometer is it’s only offensive if it doesn’t make me laugh and this movie Sin is, it did not make me laugh for a whole hour and 45 minutes. So I don’t actually even have as much difficulty with the premise as it is just profoundly unfunny. This would be fine for me if any of it was funny and if the jokes weren’t all making fun of the protagonist of this movie, which is really where I think Titus is a little bit confused. You can’t make a movie. He doesn’t know whether he wants to uplift these characters or call them idiots for an hour and 45 minutes, and that’s where it all kind of gets a little bit muddled, which is why I kind of don’t, I believe that he believes what he is saying. I really do. I also want to draw out specifically disabled parents telling Titus that this…

Jeff:

We can talk about…

Liv:

Thank you? Yes, draw some attention to that a little bit because that really for me is a very important distinction. Parents of disabled children or adults rather versus actual disabled people giving Titus the go ahead on this movie that was made for three grand. So I really want to draw attention to that.

Jeff:

So I have two things for, so I fully agree with you with eyes. To me this feels like Christopher Titus is a blunt instrument trying to perform surgery. This is a thing that needed a bit of delicacy and a bit of, I don’t want to say wit, that’s not the right word, but Titus feels like a bit of a bull in China shop. It feels like you’re just going to run in and smash stuff up. Okay,

sar:

But wait, maybe that’s part of the point. If you continue to do the good faith reading, maybe the fact that we think that Crip culture has to be done delicately is part of the point he’s making.

Liv:

Yeah.

Jeff:

Yeah. Very, very possible. So I fully agree with them. Disabled people are regularly screwed over by Hollywood. They say when people are regularly presented as these sages or Indian protection or whatever. He’s totally right about that. I don’t know that this movie did anything to combat that. Well, no, and I would love to know what parents are showing this movie that they’re, oh

sar:

My God, yeah, that audience is zero. Who would do that? He’s on about an audience for this movie that doesn’t exist

Liv:

Generously that perhaps happened to him once maybe, and that’s what he’s going on

Jeff:

Christopher Titus, if you are listening to this, please connect us with the parents of these disabled children. We would really like to talk to them. That would be fascinating to learn, but folks, it actually just gets better. A review of this film was also posted on Reddit on r slash bad movies, and once again, Christopher Titus jumps into the comment section with a defense of his film. Love Titus says, this is on Reddit. We did this movie because I have so many friends that are disabled and they only get bullshit rules. They’re wise, sage, disabled guys or someone able bodied has to help them and save them. This movie, I made them the heroes. We hired 16 disabled actors. The movie is funny with a message about just treating disabled people like you want to be treated, and yes, they do stop a school shooting to you who are offended yet not disabled. Fuck all the way off. Sincerely, Christopher Titus. I will say I’m enamored with the reality that this man signs off his internet comments with sincerely Christopher Titus

sar:

It’s giving email signature. “Sincerely”. When people sign their name and then underneath they know it’s going to attach their email signature, but they attach it anyway

Liv:

Or it says, sent from my iPhone. When you get an email from a really old person and it says, sent from my iPhone at the bottom of every single one because they don’t know how to change it, this is such a delightful encapsulation of what Titus is doing with his time. I really, oh God bless. I just really, I love knowing this so much and the fact that this doesn’t really make me feel any worse about him. I love that. For me, I’m kind of like, oh, the level of empathy that I feel towards this man, like, oh buddy, I really, oh, I want to have a conversation with him so bad. I really want to be able to sit down with him and be like, I understand. I get it. You didn’t hit the mark here, my guy, you just didn’t do it.

Jeff:

Yeah. So I included this because I thought that it was important context to get us into Christopher Titus’s frame of mind, and I think it maybe does help us to unpack the movie a little bit later, but I also wanted to do it because I have never seen a producer of a film from a movie that we’ve covered kind of defend their film publicly in the comment sections, and so shout out, that was great.

sar:

Well, it actually made me more willing to defend the movie here because I showed up today ready to just rip this film apart and now I’m trying to give it this kind of pseudo blaxploitation like reading where he’s trying to do this at least somewhat intentionally, and I think it is making a really interesting point about casting and role setting and type casting and this and that and the other thing, but it’s also making a kind of derivative point about how humor translates, even when you take it for granted that there are different in groups for humor and there are different Crip cultures and there are different ways that people want to tackle both of those things, and the Venn diagram of this intersection is oceans apart, and I think that’s where you can start debating was his intention that people hate disabled people more after this? No, but I can see why you got that.

Liv:

That is unfortunately what will occur perhaps if you watch this film. I don’t know. This gives me a really interesting insight into a question that I came away from the film with, which is who is this movie for Christopher Tit

sar:

16 Disabled Friends? That’s where this movie was for

Liv:

That’s it exactly, it’s him and the people who were in this movie. That’s who this movie was for because I walked away from this being like, I don’t know what, who was the audience for this? I don’t understand.

sar:

It very clearly defined an in-crowd, and if you weren’t in that in-crowd, by Titus’s definition, he not only wanted you to feel alienated by this film, he wanted you to feel actively disrespected by it and it worked, but it didn’t do what he thought he was going to do as a result of that.

Jeff:

Yeah, I don’t know that this was exactly the gotcha that he intended for it to be.

Liv:

It did not offend me as much as I thought it was going to is the most generous thing I can say because there is a long bit in one of Titus’s earlier standups that I actually used to find very funny, and then I got radicalized where he refers to kind of the voice in his head that tells him inferior things about himself as his inner ARS slur, and he does the voice and kind of does a proto Trumpian very clearly cerebral palsy, inspired hand gesture, and it’s supposed to be this kind of thing about that’s the voice in your head that tells you things about yourself that are untrue. That’s your kind of negative is your inner because that person is an idiot and doesn’t know you as well as you know, and therefore that’s kind of the payoff of the joke. I also think that there’s something interesting here to say about genre, and this is a point that a friend of mine made. I’m taking this from a friend of mine, a journalist named Esme Mazzio, who wrote an article about how a lot of the comedy of our youth in the eighties and nineties is just making fun of disabled adults without actually knowing that that’s what they’re doing. If you watch Elf or Billy Madison or Happy Gilmore, a lot of that.

sar:

I think Happy Gilmore was very aware of what it was doing.

Liv:

Do You think he was aware of it? Okay.

Jeff:

Dumb and Dumber.

sar:

I think that was the entire joke of Happy Gilmore.

Liv:

Okay, great. So if you watch The Waterboy or any of those types of films or even some of the early Jim Carrey stuff, I feel has a little bit of this flavor to it as well. And I remember being that age and watching those films and being 10 or 12 and thinking, I didn’t have a sense of humor because I just didn’t find any of this very funny, and I was just kind of like, oh, okay, sure. They’re doing a weird voice, all right, for a whole couple of hours. And then it was only when my friend made this point in her article about Elf that I was like, oh, maybe that’s why I didn’t think I was funny for 20 years because this is uncomfortable for me and I just didn’t realize that it was me and people like me who are being made fun of. So I think if you look at it in that RA of film, I think Titus is really going for, what if we said the quiet part loud? What if we actually did absolutely what we actually were doing the whole time, but we didn’t admit we were doing and we actually hired some of the people that we’re making fun of to make fun of themselves.

sar:

Yeah, you’re thinking like a marriage of American Pie meets The Ringer and he just did both badly.

Liv:

Yeah. Yes.

Jeff:

Now I also agree with Christopher Titus, the reviewers in this world don’t know anything. The real reviews we find from random people on the internet who post things on websites like Amazon and IMDB. Now this movie I had a really hard time finding because yeah, no one writes about this movie. I don’t think many people have seen it until this until now. People are going to see it. So I do have two though that I want to read to you because they tickled me and I really need your help are saying this. Okay, so our first comes from IMDB. Both of ’em actually come from IMDB. Our first is from User Greenheart. They gave the film a seven out of 10 and the review is titled The Specials A lady Mayor Jilted by her ex-fiancee that seemed to work with a group of cadets who are part of a disability scheme in order to get reelected.

I really don’t know what to feel about this. I would love to have a view for the disabled community. The four Disabled cadets are excellent, very funny, and yet there is so much cheap shot humor, although you would expect that everything will turn out okay. Calling people with disabilities retards constantly is just not cool. The idea was great. The acting in casting was spot on. The script was the only thing that I found close to retarded. I’m using scenes at a gun range, at a martial arts class. The scene where school kids parade to safety when a shooter enters their school is just plain heroine. So much potential. I really did enjoy it. I just felt unnecessarily uncomfortable at times.

sar:

As I think about this, and especially taking some of Liv’s commentary into context, it feels like what the pitch might’ve been to whoever the fuck produced this was. I want to do American Pie, but I reduct it for Crip culture because a lot of what people are complaining about is what people in the nineties were complaining about with American Pie, where you’re being outwardly offensive and most people won’t find it funny, but the niche will kind of thing. The American Pie Band Camp film basically invented that for when I was a teenager, and then he saw things like I keep thinking of The Ringer just because the concept is similar. The Ringer was about Catherine Hegel, I think it was trying to train Johnny Knoxville to be in the Special Olympics, and it has a lot of similar overlap jokes to what was predictable in this film.

The Ringer was terrible, but at the time when The Ringer came out, I found that film funny, and I think if I watched it again, there would still be parts I would laugh at, but I’m having trouble rectifying how you go for the kind of American pie larger than life being intentionally offensive, being for a niche and foreign in-crowd and still doing so much wrong by that in-crowd in ways that I don’t even think the ringer achieved. I think because the writing, but B, the intention of the ringer was to kind of try to say, you see how shitty we’re being and the intention doesn’t feel the same here. It feels more like, fuck all the abs able bodied out there, and also we can go fuck ourselves too.

Jeff:

Yeah. I think one of the reasons I love this review and by love is, I mean this not in the way that love works as a word on the opposite of love is this notion of in back-to-back sentences. The person is like, it’s not cool to use the R word and then is like, but I also thought that the script was R word, and I think that that’s exactly what this movie is doing too, where it’s like it’s saying, haha, I’m saying this bad word, but I shouldn’t be saying it and it’s a bad thing and you shouldn’t do this. But then I’m also going to lean into these other things very naturally and very subtly, which I’m not even thinking about because I’m not actually a part of this broader community. I don’t see that I’m doing weird things that are weird.

sar:

To be simplistic, it feels like when your mom tells you that the difference between when a joke is funny and when it isn’t is if everyone else is laughing and this film feels like it’s laughing at Crips instead of with Crips. And a lot of the other examples we’ve been naming of films in similar veins feels more like a width. So when the Crips have stopped laughing, maybe that’s what’s generating all this discomfort because it’s no longer funny,

Liv:

Which is so interesting because how often do you see a movie where a third of the cast is disabled?

sar:

Yeah, they all find it funny. I can’t explain that.

Liv:

I’d be like, hell yeah, Titus, hire your friends. Oh my God. Well, no, I’ll save that joke for when we do the plot. But there was this one particular joke that I actually really thought was very funny, and it’s the one joke in the whole movie that I thought was funny and it’s uttered by a disabled person, and I was like, oh my God. In another context, this would feel really empowering, and I think Titus really wants it to, but I don’t know. He just went so far off track and I don’t know how any of his actors didn’t clock this. I have so many questions about the cast of this movie, and I don’t doubt that they approved it. I don’t doubt that he didn’t say anything in the script that his cast was uncomfortable saying. I just have questions about the dynamic there. And yeah, I have so many questions about how those jokes landed for the people who had to say those jokes. I don’t know, because there isn’t even a lot of the disabled characters making fun of themselves, which I wouldn’t really mind. I make fun of myself all the time. My humor is very self-deprecating. The character of Garrett Fowler spends most of his time making fun of the disabled characters in this film, which I think is its major problem

Jeff:

And spends the majority of the time talking. The disabled characters actually have very few lines in the film except for Alvin. Very few. It’s predominantly Alvin has a few lines, but a lot of ’em are defeated lines too though, right? It’s like how many times are we going to get the hustler poop choke? Literally a billion times times

Liv:

The martial arts scene happens twice. They do literally the same joke. This is what my point, it happens three times. Three times, yeah. This goes to my point about the movie being padded. The movie I felt was at least 15 minutes too long, and that was a big part of it. We do get that joke three times. And also the fact that the actor playing Alvin is a non-disabled actor and gets much more screen time than any of the other actors who are actually disabled. I have thoughts about the math on that, but okay.

Jeff:

Now unfortunately, all of us, we are silly people and we don’t understand art. Like JA zero 13 does on IMDB, Ja zero rated this 10 out of 10 titled, I’m not making this up, I needed this movie.

sar:

You know what? He’s part of that cra. I am not surprised by that.

Liv:

Fascinated to hear this take. Yeah, really can’t wait to hear this.

Jeff:

Definitely not leaving any spoilers behind because I’d rather have people watch this for themselves. I just have to say that since we’re not going to see any Al Bundy down humor anymore, our humor like this movie provides on encounter the fact that our delicate, thin-skinned little snowflake culture that we’ve cultivated will no longer allow us to have a laugh. I’m considered disabled. I feel that every once in a while we have to enjoy a little bit of dark humor or even humor that is completely inappropriate. This whole movie is completely inappropriate, but it’s intended to be. We just need to be able to laugh at ourselves more. If we can’t learn to do that, then we’re already more disabled than we think.

Liv:

I hate that. I agree with that on its face. I actually agree with that, but I also feel like gallows humor only works if you’re the one that’s standing on the gallows and Titus is not standing on the gallies. So I think this movie would be very different for me. Number one, if it was made, if the script was actually funny, which I don’t think it is, number two, if it was actually directed and written by a disabled comedian, if Josh Blue or someone got behind this, I would have infinitely more grace for this film because I don’t think that these characters are laughing at themselves. I think the actors are laughing at themselves, which good for them. If they are, I hope they are. I don’t think the characters are laughing at themselves. I think Garrett Fowler is laughing at the characters the entire, and what’s interesting is not only Garrett Fowler, the Christopher Titus character, but all of the non-disabled characters are laughing at these people. And so you kind of can’t tell the difference between the main character who is supposed to grow and change and learn that these people are effective at this job and the random other side characters who are making fun of them just because they’re ablest assholes. It’s like, I can’t tell the difference because you’re all saying the same things. I don’t.

Jeff:

Sarah, what do you make of the fact that we have now had another reference to Snowflake culture in the reviews of an IC movie?

sar:

It keeps coming back. It don’t stop coming and it don’t stop coming. I actually thought what was more interesting, and I think it’s the same conversation if you’re going to do the Republican Democrat wars, is that he references Al Bundy by name, which was the kind of married with children character who was this charlatan shitty husband, mid eighties absent father type figure. That was kind of a prototype for modern characters like Homer Simpson. And I think the relation beyond, oh, why can’t I be offensive anymore, is that it’s kind of the same thing I was trying to stumble through at the beginning of the podcast where I’m saying I really do get that in groups like people who find Al Bundy funny, which I did, especially as a teenager, have a right to exist. And then what you have to measure is who loses out as a result of those groups equal right to exist in this kind of myriad of kaleidoscopic cultures where you’re in inappropriateness is always coming at another group’s expense, but you can measure the kind of success of that by who’s laughing or how many groups are laughing.

So a super modern example of that would be someone like Bill Burr. Bill Burr takes tons of ingroup to task, but he does it in a way that for a modern postmodern audience is still funny. But I think he achieves the humor in that he’s just as willing to a take the brunt of the humor. He uses himself as his main subject, which I think is what Liv is getting at, but his inappropriateness doesn’t seem to have as high a cost to the other ingroup, and it makes it seem a little more bearable. Whereas people like Al Bundy, you go back and watch those episodes and it does seem like there’s a tangible cost there.

Jeff:

Yeah, I mean maybe it’s just like punch it up, punch it down thing. It’s a lot of things.

sar:

It’s the generation.

Jeff:

It’s a lot of things.

sar:

Your figures were coming of age in it, so I keep referencing American Pie, but people 10 years older than me might be referencing married with children.

Jeff:

Yeah. Now, the other thing I want to know, do you have any idea what they mean by Al Bundy’s down?

sar:

I think they mean offensive.

Jeff:

I have no idea. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yes. Like lowbrow. Yes. You think maybe. Okay. Yeah, that one I was like down Down syndrome humor or..? Yeah, I had no idea. I couldn’t piece that one together, but I’m glad that Jerzio found this film. They found the film that they needed.

Liv:

Thank you. This is a delightful thing for me as an artist, knowing that your piece of art will find the audience that needs it. I’m saying this completely without irony. I worry about what if what I’m putting out doesn’t matter and doesn’t make an impact, and no, your work will find the people that actually really need it. And this review, absolutely, 1000% proves that, which is such a lift up for me as an artist. I feel very inspired by that.

Jeff:

Yeah, find your Jerzio13. That’s all you need to do. Find your Jerzio13, everyone special unit. Is this a watch? Is it a pass?

Liv:

God, it’s a hard pass. It’s a thing that I want to expose my other friends who are big time tightest fans to, because I want to show my artist friends that we don’t have to hit the mark every single time. It doesn’t have to be good. You can still put work out into the world and have it not hit. But for regular people who I don’t think are going to really get the joke that is this movie, which is not to say that there are jokes in this movie. I don’t think that there are. But the joke of the film itself conceptually, no, it’s a hard pass. I wouldn’t subject anyone to this.

sar:

I mean, I totally agree that it was genuinely hard to watch, but I think hearing the reviews has made me a lot more thoughtful of the kind of questions it’s asking, and so far as what’s the difference between this and why we canceled Jerry Seinfeld but didn’t cancel Bill Burr kind of thing. And the longer you kind of fight and twist around with that argument, the more your own kind of kaleidoscope emerges that there’s just so many individual circumstances that feed into the whole genre of humor and especially parody humor, that you’re just going to be so polarized to some elements that some people are going to be less polarized by and vice versa. So is there a way to actually come to a coherent conclusion on, was this for anyone or can I cancel this or not cancel that? I don’t know. I am thinking pretty hard about a film that I really didn’t enjoy

Jeff:

Right now. You as audience, if you have not watched this movie yet, and I can’t imagine why that would be, you still have time to watch it because we are going to wrap up our episode here today. We’re not going to dive too deep into the movie, but if you want to hear us do that, or if you would rather hear our opinions on the film and not have to subject yourself to it, you are just going to have to tune in again next week. So thank you. I’d thank you, Liv, for being here.

Liv:

Thank You. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Jeff:

Absolutely. And we will see you again next week when we dive deeply into Special Unit

 

[Mvll Crimes theme song transition]

Jeff:

And thus concludes another episode of Invalid Culture. Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed it or not. Either way, please take a second. If you haven’t to subscribe to our podcast on whatever platform you’re using, tell a friend, and better yet, do you want to be a victim on the podcast, go onto our website, invalid culture.com, submit your name. We would love to terrorize you with a bad movie, have a bad movie of your own that you think that we should watch. Again, jump on our website, invalid culture.com, submit it, and we would love to watch the trash. Be sure to tune in again next week for part two where we will start to dig into the movie and find out whether or not it wins the coveted Jerry Lewis seal of approval

[Mvll Crimes theme song]:

With strangers on the internet. Everyone is wrong. I just haven’t told them yet.

Cover of Monkey Shines dvd, featuring an angry toy monkey with bloody knife in its hands.

IC returns with a spooky entry just in time for Halloween!

After a (brief?) hiatus, Invalid Culture returns with season 2 getting started with George Romero’s cult classic Monkey Shines. Focused on the exploits Allan Mann and his helper monkey, Ella, things get a little gruesome when the help that’s need is muuuuurder. Join Jeff, Erika and guest host Clara as we dig into the blood and guts!

Listen at…

 

Grading the Film

As always, this film is reviewed with scores recorded in four main categories, with 1 being the best and 5 being the worst. Like the game of golf, the lower the score the better.

How accurate is the representation?

Jeff – 2 / 5

Erika – 2 / 5

Clara – 3 / 5

Total – 7 / 15

How difficult was it to watch the movie?

Erika – 2 / 5

Jeff – 2 / 5

Clara – 1 / 5

Total – 5 / 15

How often were things unintentionally funny?

Erika – 1.5 / 5

Jeff – 1 / 5

Clara – 1.5 / 5

Total – 4 / 15

How far back has it put disabled people?

Jeff – 3 / 5

Erika – 2.5 / 5

Clara – 2 / 5

Total – 7.5 / 15

The Verdict

Regrets, I have a few…

Podcast Transcript

Host 1, Jeff:
Just when you thought it was over, we’ll come back with a whole new season of Invalid Culture. That’s right. Welcome back. It is time for us to watch some terrible movies, but this season, we got a whole new game plan. We are not just going to be watching the movies on our own. We are also going to be subjecting some of our friends, some of our enemies to the terrible, terrible films. So, welcome back to another season of Invalid Culture with a very spooky episode to get us started. Oh, hey, new season, new theme song. Shout out to Mvll Crimes. Thank you so much for letting us use this banner. Take it away in mvll crimes!
[Intro song: “Arguing with Strangers” by Mvll Crimes, a heavy punk song with Joan Jett-esque singer, quick beat and shredding guitar rifts.]
We’ll come back with a whole new season of Invalid Culture. That’s right. Welcome back. It is time for us to watch some terrible movies, but this season, we got a whole new game plan. Welcome to Invalid Culture, a podcast dedicated to excavating the strangest, most baffling, and worst representations of disability in pop culture. Unlike other podcasts that review films you’ve probably heard of, Invalid Culture is all about looking into the abyss of pop culture adjacent representations that just never really quite broke through, because well, they’re just awful. I’m your host, Jeff Preston.
Host 2, Erika:
Hi, I’m your other host, Erika Katzman. Today, we are delighted to welcome a guest host, Clara Madrenas.
Host 3, Clara:
Hi, I’m Clara, also known as wife of Jeff. I am a social worker in the mental health field, and I really liked Monkey Shines.
Host 2, Erika:
Ooh, coming in strong.
Host 3, Clara:
Oh, yeah.
Host 1, Jeff:
Okay. Okay. I mean the idea of this project was the torture those that are in our lives. So, it only felt fitting that we should have my partner on here. As Clara alluded to, we watched this fun little movie called Monkey Shines. For those of you who have not seen the movie, Erika, can you maybe give us a rundown of what is happening in his film?
Host 2, Erika:
I would love to. So, our protagonist, Allan Mann, is this totally regular fitness obsessed man of action. He’s out for a leisurely jog as he does with a bag of bricks on his back. Suddenly, he’s hit by a car and loses everything, both his physical ability and his girlfriend who leaves him for his doctor. Distraught, now a prisoner, I am indeed quoting promotional materials for this film when I describe him as a prisoner of his wheelchair, Allan contemplates ending his life. But luckily, a family friend and pre-ethics committee researcher, Jeffrey Fisher, has been injecting test monkeys with shredded human brains. But internal faculty competition and failing experiments means Jeff must find a new home for prize mutant monkey and what better place than home care.
Now, a trained helper monkey, Ella moves in with Allan to care for his needs, but they begin to form a telepathic connection. Ella starts to carry out violent attacks on people who have wronged Allan and becoming jealous of the human women in his life begins attacking everyone. In the end, Allan must kill Ella before she can kill again, which he does by biting her on the scruff of the neck, whipping her head back and forth for approximately 30 minutes. So, that about sums it up. What did you guys think of this film?
Host 3, Clara:
I thought it was delightful. I thought the monkey was adorable. I thought that scene where he bites the monkey and shakes it to death and it just splats roadkill in his little house, that was just wonderful. What else? The weird scenes where he’s biting blood out of his own lip and the monkey makes out with him, that was just so weird and so entertaining.
Host 1, Jeff:
Brave that they went straight to bestiality an hour into this film.
Host 3, Clara:
Did they though or was it some vampire thing heralding to Romero’s… I don’t know.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, precious bodily fluids, I think, for sure.
Host 3, Clara:
Yeah, they needed to share the bodily fluids in order to have the telepathic connection, obviously.
Host 2, Erika:
Well, that’s how telepathy works.
Host 3, Clara:
Whenever I need to feel more connected to someone, I just sip their blood.
Host 2, Erika:
Jeff, can you confirm?
Host 1, Jeff:
Duly noted. I’ve wondered why I was always feeling so faint. Suddenly, it makes so much sense. Yeah. What did you think there, Erika?
Host 2, Erika:
I did not hate this film. Given your mission to torture people with terrible film, I have to say, I think that you went a little bit easy on your wife because this was not a torturous experience for me. I’ve poked around the interwebs enough to know that some people were not terribly fond of this film, but maybe it’s having the reference package that we have. Taking the films that we’ve previously reviewed as a reference point, this was not bad. We’ll take a look at some problematic tropes, but I think all in all, I think this is going to measure up pretty decently against some of our others.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, I think that’s a pretty fair assessment. I think it’s funny that a lot of people refer to this as B-list horror film as being schlocky and weird. Anyone who’s been following the podcast will know that this is probably the biggest production film we have done on the podcast. There’s probably more time and money and still put into this. It’s not a bad film, but I will say I feel like it’s almost like there’s two very different films in this. There’s the film that starts for the first 18 minutes or so that is just beating you over the head with disability tropes and then there’s this whole other thing that is actually borderline resistant to general ideas and thoughts about disability.
It’s almost like there’s two movies that jammed together where you’ve got these two really blah things at the beginning and the end and then this weird, interested grove in the middle that I think perhaps people missed, because they were so frazzled by the first 10 or 15 minutes. They’re like, “Oh, here we go again. Yet another movie like this.” And then it turned to be something else.
Host 3, Clara:
Yeah, it’s almost got that rear window disability used as just a convenient way to get him to not be able to move in certain ways. And then because they started from that point, they folded in a bunch of things that weren’t actually super disability related, but in doing so, they created a character that had some, dare I say, depth. He was lonely. He wanted to connect with that monkey.
Host 1, Jeff:
Just wanted to find someone that would love him.
Host 3, Clara:
I wanted to connect with that monkey. Such a cutie.
Host 1, Jeff:
Unlike his wife, right?
Host 3, Clara:
Yeah. I don’t know. She was rude.
Host 1, Jeff:
Now, of course, we have our opinions about the movie and we’re going to talk more about it, but we always like to begin with the thoughts of other people. So, we went through our trolling of user-generated comments and it pulled out a couple that were interesting that I think maybe touch on things that I hadn’t maybe saw or thought about in the film. Okay. So, let’s hear what actual film people, and by that, I mean random people on the internet had to say about this film.
Host 2, Erika:
So starting us off, we have a four-star review from Sean Lehman who says, “Jason Beghe stuck in a wheelchair all movie does a pretty good job of projecting vulnerability and anger as I would imagine anyone in his situation would feel. Jeffrey Fisher as Allan’s scientist friend is a well-meaning character who initially can’t believe what Allan tells him until it’s too late. Even Boo the Monkey is a cute little character whose misguided love lands her in a lot of trouble. Dramatic horror movies bring a different sense of tone that doesn’t always jive with the normal horror fan. For a film of this type, it relies on solid acting performances and we get just that.”
Host 3, Clara:
The focus on the performance is interesting. I mean, other than the fact that Stanley Tucci has both no range and yet quite the range, I didn’t really notice anything about the performances themselves, but this guy, he really dialed into the feeling in this movie.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, I would say this is actually one of the more professional, thoughtful sounding reviews that we have ever looked at. This borderline professional, I would say.
Host 3, Clara:
Yeah, there’s a sensitivity there too.
Host 1, Jeff:
I wonder though, there seems to be some massive generalizations in this that really crack me up. So, for instance, the fact that the vulnerability and anger, that is just what anyone would feel in this situation. He wants people dead. People are killed because of his rage, which I find it interesting. Well, yeah, he is stuck in a wheelchair. Of course, he would want all these people to die.
Host 3, Clara:
I think though there was a depth there where he didn’t really want them to die. He was a little sad when they did.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, he was trying to stop it. He was trying to stop it. How this whole relationship between him and the monkey play out, we will have to unpack a little bit, because I don’t think I understand… I was about to say the science of it. I don’t know if that’s right, but I don’t know if I understand the internal science of the film. I also don’t want to point out that “Was Jeffrey Fisher a well-meaning character?” This was a man who was banning drugs in his lab, smoking amongst the monkeys, scraping human brain, and injecting it in a monkey.
Host 3, Clara:
He had a lot of chemicals in that lab to be lighting up around.
Host 1, Jeff:
That’s a lot of smoking.
Host 3, Clara:
All that steaming stuff that the monkeys trashed later in the movie. Also, why did the monkeys trash his lab?
Host 1, Jeff:
Revolution, baby.
Host 3, Clara:
Aww, so cute.
Host 2, Erika:
All right. We have another four-star review from A McCleman. This is one of those unknown movies that you will be pleasantly due to its quality, not its theme, surprised by. The director does not resort to gore or silly tricks, no sudden pigeons, no cats being thrown into frame to create a truly disturbing and frightening atmosphere as he gradually shows the protagonist becoming more and more absorbed by his “problem”. I’m sorry guys. I had a bit of a hard time getting through this review, because I do recall some gore and I also recall some sudden appearance of a monkey out of someone’s spinal column.
Host 1, Jeff:
That’s true.
Host 2, Erika:
I just have some off the bat questions about the integrity of this review.
Host 1, Jeff:
I have nothing but questions about this review. I fully agree. There were absolutely jump stares in this film. I mean, he broke the monkey’s neck with his mouth and threw its corpse on the ground. I mean, it might not be literal entrails being ripped out of someone’s body, but I would say it was relatively gore. Not that I have problem with that. I also love this “problem” in quotes. The problem being that a monkey is murdering everyone around him.
Host 3, Clara:
What is the problem? Because a very striking scene was when he does try to die by putting that bag over his head and it’s a horrific moment that they skate right through it, but it’s terrifying. Is that his problem, that he himself would like to die?
Host 2, Erika:
Extremely unclear.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yes. More and more absorbed by this problem that is encountering him.
Host 3, Clara:
That it’s in quotes, right? It’s a problem but not really. Is that what the quotes are all about?
Host 1, Jeff:
I mean if you look at the broad story, the dude loses everything including his wife.
Host 2, Erika:
Does he though? Because he gains the monkey trainer lady in a gradual way that makes no sense. He has a pretty sweet life. He’s got a lot of technological setups to make his life seem relatively simple and easy. He loses stuff. The movie really clips along in terms of how quickly he seems to have a very accessible house. If it wasn’t for the monkey killing everyone, he seems to have a pretty sweet deal going.
Host 1, Jeff:
I fully agree.
Host 3, Clara:
Even then, if he could hide that the monkey was killing everyone, if he just subtly let the monkey do its thing.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, I think we might chop this up to McCleman being on the same wavelength as Sean Lehman in terms of just making assumptions about what people’s lives are most likely like when they incur a disability. Finally, we have a five-star review from an anonymous user who went to the trouble of titling their review, “Never mess with God’s creation,” followed by a review that reads, “Loved this movie after seeing Jason Beghe portraying a quadriplegic and then seeing him portray Hank Voight on Chicago PD. He’s two completely people.” I just want to clarify that I am reading the review when I say he’s two completely people.
Host 1, Jeff:
Two full people.
Host 3, Clara:
So poetic.
Host 2, Erika:
Loved Ella. She tried so hard to, number two, please Allan, but I felt sorry for her in the end of the movie when Allan killed her.
Host 3, Clara:
He more than killed her. He broke that monkey. Spoken like a true Chicago PD fan completely.
Host 1, Jeff:
Absolutely. What I want to understand is what relation does the title have to basically anything else that he says at the review? I don’t disagree that it applies to the movie perhaps, but it’s like he set it up as this one thing and then he subverted our expectations with a very different review.
Host 3, Clara:
And then never mess with God’s creation. The movie seemed to take a pretty pro-Darwin approach in my opinion. So, I don’t know that God’s creation is a huge factor here.
Host 2, Erika:
I think this is a cautionary tale when you go injecting human brains into a monkey, things might go poorly.
Host 3, Clara:
But they also might go very neutrally because think of the architecture, the mechanics of that. You inject the frozen, sliced up human brain into the monkey’s veins.
Host 1, Jeff:
Blood?
Host 2, Erika:
General course.
Host 3, Clara:
Yes. He’s got brain in the bloodstream. I don’t know. I’m skeptical of the whole thing.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, we’re going to talk some more about the science in our next segment.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah. I have so many questions about the science. I think my last favorite point about this review is the idea that they’re shocked by the fact that this actor can play two different characters. Has this person never seen actors before?
Host 3, Clara:
Well, we don’t know that they’re different characters. They’re completely people, but they could be the same.
Host 1, Jeff:
Well, they’re different names. So, you could have changed his name, I suppose, because he is Allan Mann in… I was supposed to say Monkey Paws. … Monkey Shines. And then he’s Hank Voight when he reappears in Chicago PD.
Host 3, Clara:
Are you confirming or denying that Chicago PD is a sequel to Monkey Shines?
Host 1, Jeff:
I’m going to reserve judgment until after our conversation. Okay. So, we’ve talked a little bit about what other people thought about the film. We’ve talked a little bit about what the films about in general, but I think it is time for us to get analytical. So, while this movie, I think, does a good job of some things, there are some of those old fun tropes that we get to endure in this film. Particularly you mentioned earlier, the first 20 minutes of the film or so, really lean hard into telling us that Allan Mann is a man of physical form and function. What did you guys think about this opening scene in which he covers his body in weights to go for a casual stroll?
Host 3, Clara:
And nude stretches earlier in the film.
Host 2, Erika:
That was extremely unusual. So, as an experienced distance runner and I’m decently experienced, I have run many thousands of kilometers in training for actual long distance races, not once have I strapped weights to my wrists and ankles and filled a backpack with… Were they bricks? Were they blocks?
Host 1, Jeff:
They were bricks.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, bricks. I mean, I’m no man, man. So, maybe that’s why.
Host 1, Jeff:
That’s why.
Host 2, Erika:
But yes, just back to Claire’s point, I have also never nor could I imagine myself stretching completely naked. Just the thought of sitting on a carpet with exposed genitals, I’m not feeling that, but to be actually stretching in a way that is mashing my nude body into said carpet. No shade to people who stretch nude, who enjoy nudity in general, but there was something unusual about that.
Host 3, Clara:
Especially when there was no other nudity other than the sex scene. We don’t really see his body during the sex scene. So, we see this horrific exposure of him doing his weird nude stretches and then he’s disabled and then his body becomes something else. Something that we don’t see doing nude stretches.
Host 2, Erika:
It almost read a warning for if parents had inadvertently brought their child to this film thinking that it was a cute monkey movie for kids. It was like PS, this is going to get a lot worse than a fully naked man. So, now is the time to shield virgin eyes.
Host 1, Jeff:
This is exactly what Susan Jeffords talked about in the ’80s, you have all these movies like Rocky and Top Gun, Topical. They have all these movies of hard man bodies like Stallone and Schwarzenegger that are trying to recapture this hard man status that was thought to have been lost in the 1970s. So, I think this him stretching with tight oiled muscles, firm buttocks clenching or thirsting for the road to run is they’re trying to set up this duality where it’s like this man has everything until he doesn’t when he’s run over by a truck.
Host 3, Clara:
Yeah, there is something very militaristic about stuffing your backpack with bricks. It reminds you of the big packs and the huffing through the forests of jungles of Vietnam. And then it’s interesting that the scientists are not hard bodies.
Host 1, Jeff:
Exactly.
Host 2, Erika:
They’re nerds.
Host 1, Jeff:
They’re egg heads. Yeah. The one is a heavy smoker who does drugs. The other is this sweaty ham looking man more or less. Also, note that they don’t show him getting hit by the car exactly, but they do show the brick shattering. I honestly wonder if this is Romero being like, “He was built a brick shit house.” That is the joke that’s being made here and then the brick breaks. So, even the hardest of bodies can suffer.
Host 2, Erika:
And then we pretty quickly find ourselves in the OR.
Host 1, Jeff:
Almost immediately. We have that nice cut the body open scene. So, while we were watching this film together, moments into the film, after the accident happens, tell us what you asked, Erika.
Host 2, Erika:
I believe I said I’d like to know how many minutes into the film we get before we find out that he is no longer sexually viable, basically that his penis doesn’t work anymore.
Host 1, Jeff:
The answer is 15 minutes and 5 seconds, about 10 minutes after Erika asked this question.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, I mean, I think Romero has a real gift for foreshadowing. We’ve established that much.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yes. Yep. It was pretty clear. I will say though, this was a mic drop moment though when he does reveal the impotence. I love it because he drops this line and then the scene just ends. If you don’t believe me, how abrupt it is, take a listen to this.
Speaker 4:
I’m sorry I didn’t make the party. Linda called me. She sounded pretty crazed. Linda’s dumping me. She didn’t come out and say it, but no, I can tell. Linda’s just not comfortable with the change yet. That’s all. She doesn’t come around.
Speaker 5:
Hey, she walks out on you now. Fuck her.
Speaker 4:
I can’t.
Host 2, Erika:
So, science made its best effort. It failed. He is painfully aware.
Host 1, Jeff:
This scene felt like something that would be in South Park. Just this weird beat, the back and forth of delight. He’s trying to be all supportive and being like, “Well, whatever. Who cares about her? There’ll be more.” But it has to come back to the dick. It has to come back to that’s the problem. She’s leaving me, but I can’t, which I wanted to just put fully in view. She clearly left you, because A, Stanley Tucci obviously. Two, he’s like a rich doctor. She left for the money, I think, honestly.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, I think what we’ve covered to this point, this setup of this physically superior man and then understanding the devastating loss of his physical superiority is setting us up to understand that Allan is an object of care. That is, I think, clarifying he is no longer sexual. He is an object of care. He will still be surrounded by women, but they will be there to… I mean, I’m hesitant to say take care of him because I don’t think that taking care is really what they’re doing so much as competing with each other to be the caretaker. This is really interesting. This was interesting for me to think about in the context of this plot because I don’t think this is really something that we have seen portrayed before.
Host 1, Jeff:
No, there’s this immediate shift from women in this film predominantly shift from romantic object immediately to maternal object, literally a mother and then this cold nurse. Well, okay, we could talk more about this later, but this woman who wears many hats including monkey trainer, wheelchair repair person, adoptive device, she was an OT who then sleeps with him. So, she’s a mother and shaves him, his little groomer. So, we have this person who starts out as the maternal carer that then becomes the love object again. That reconstitutes him and he regains his autonomy after he sleeps with her.
Host 2, Erika:
I know this is not our story can we talk about one moment, but we do need to talk a little bit about Mel. So, monkey trainer Mel is how I will henceforth be referring to her. Monkey trainer Mel slips into Allan’s orbit as a monkey trainer and then as you have alluded to suddenly just becomes a caregiver. It’s as though any woman who slips into Allan’s orbit then becomes a caregiver, because suddenly, we see her shaving his face, which is A, quite intimate, and B, relatively, there’s an implication of trust and care and sensitivity. And then it just spirals from there. Wait a sec, wait a sec. We have seen perhaps the first time that Mel and Allan bring, when moments after learning about this support monkey, it is somehow ready to support Allan specifically.
So, Mel shows up with the monkey and honestly credit to this actor Kate McNeil for her face acting, because in that scene, she is so visibly torn into by her romantic attraction to Allan, but also this apparent inappropriateness of her feelings for him. I don’t know if it’s because he’s a client or because he’s disabled or because his penis is broken, but whatever it is, it’s clear that she’s so conflicted.
Yeah, we’re deep into spoiler territory here, but it’s clear that when he regains this ability to, well, this is a fresh spoiler, but walk later in the film, when he shows her that he’s perfectly capable of satisfying her sexually even without a functioning phallus, her confusion is just alleviated. Suddenly, that hold back in her face is gone and she’s just there. She’s ready now. She can be romantically into him. That’s quite an arc.
Host 3, Clara:
Yeah. It’s another piece of just unintentional goodness that this movie seemed to have, because another thing you touched on there was the fluidity of their social networks was clearly just a matter of narrative convenience. So, the fact that the ex-girlfriend gets with the doctor and the scientist is a family friend and the caregiver is also the monkey trainer, it was all very confusing and clearly just there because that’s the easiest way to limit the number of actors we need in this movie. But then it hinted at this sense of community or collectivism that they had in their little bubble that was sweet, cute that they all help each other out in these weird ways despite the fact that all the women were so maternal and caring and all the men were purely selfish.
Host 2, Erika:
So, in that way, there was that bit of a friends vibe where everybody knows each other, but there was also this really tense competition between the four females, the mom, the nurse, Mel, and the monkey.
Host 1, Jeff:
Absolutely. Yeah, which I think is this other trope that the movie… I don’t know if it’s intentional or not, but it gets caught into this whole idea of when caretakers become lovers and that whole falling in love with your nurse thing is happening. I think it’s important to note that this woman who’s never met him but has trained the monkey starts to shave him and yet the male family friend who would know how to shave, given that he is a man and shaves his own face clearly or maybe not, maybe his mother shaves his face.
I don’t know how it works in this world. He never delivers any care. Jeff doesn’t provide any care nor really any service other than giving him a monkey. As Claire said, he gives the monkey for selfish reasons, because he’s trying to hide the monkey. He would not have given that monkey otherwise.
Host 2, Erika:
So, there’s the caretaker turned lover, but there’s also some interesting unpacking around the parent, the mom, right? Because the doctor actually instructs the mom to leave because she is apparently causing Allan’s depression. The mom has some, I guess I’d say, stereotypical, but in an accurate way, if that makes sense. So, the mom declares, first of all, doesn’t ask if she’s needed or wanted, but just declares like, “Oh, well, I’ve sold my business and my house. I’m moving in with you because no one else can take care of you.”
Never mind the fact that they’re clearly extremely wealthy and could probably afford hired care if needed. But no, mom is going to sacrifice her life to be there to care for her son. When we see Allan go and spend the weekend at Mel’s, mom is just losing her mind, upset that “Where were you? How could you not tell me?” How old is he? He’s in his late 30s, early 40s.
Host 1, Jeff:
It’s hard to say. I mean, back in the ’80s, he might have been 13. Triple aged, very rapidly.
Host 2, Erika:
Fair point.
Host 1, Jeff:
He was in law school, so he was probably somewhere like mid-20 and he was written for the Olympics. That’s why he was jogging. So, he would’ve been probably early to mid-20s.
Host 2, Erika:
I think even at mid-20s, it would be very normal for an adult in their early 20s living alone, not to inform or check in with their parent or caregiver for that matter about what they were doing with their weekend overnights, et cetera. There were quite a lot of accurate representations, and this was one of them that portrayal of overreach.
Host 1, Jeff:
I wonder if that accuracy is driven by, “Was George Romero being like I want to make a commentary about familial relations after an accident and how people can feel like they maybe are intended to be or must be taken care of or whatever,” or was this all about designing more antagonism so that the audience is like, “Oh, no, Ella’s going to kill the mom next”? I’m wondering. It’s like the narrative purpose perhaps doesn’t actually matter, because I think now watching this movie, this was made in the ’80s, now watching this in 2022, there’s some interesting stuff to be drawn from this that was perhaps not intended, but I think is actually accurate to some people’s experiences after encountering an injury like this.
Host 3, Clara:
I also find it hilarious, the trope of the caregiver, mother, girlfriend situation, because it’s so common that the of intimacy of shaving becomes sexual intimacy. As someone is disabled, there’s this relationship between caregiving and sexuality. I found that fascinating because a part of the reason that I think Jeff, you and my relationship works is because we’re very distinct. I do not play much of a caregiving role at all in your life. I think that’s a good thing because it keeps us able to maintain our relationship that is built on a lot of other things without that expectation that I play some maternal role or that you play some needing role. Something the tropes leave out too is sure, there is caregiving, but the caregiving is directed by you.
So, as much as there’s this disabled person is so helpless and needs to be cared for, whatever, you are actually the one in control in your caregiving relationships. It would be really shocking to me if anything about that ever became intimate or sexual because it just doesn’t have that dynamic in the real world for the most part. It’s so practical and clinical in a way, but also so shared that you have the power and control in directing your care and they have that physical capacity to provide things that you might not be able to reach. But it’s so much more egalitarian than these sexual relationships seem to… There’s weird power and control stuff going on in these sex scenes that is not going on in my observed interactions and experienced interactions with caregiving, right?
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah. So, I’m sorry, but can we talk about that sex scene?
Host 1, Jeff:
I would love to talk about the sex scene. Before we even talk about the actual scene, I just want to note that this sex scene was originally intended to be much longer and a lot more gratuitous, but Romero actually cut a lot of it for various reasons. Famously, one of the producers of the film actually had liked it before the cut, where it was a lot more gritty, which included a penetrative oral sex scene, which was then cut. I would imagine probably it would’ve had to have been cut for ratings. This movie would not have been in cinema if they’d shown him putting his tongue inside this woman. I don’t think they would’ve allowed that, but somewhere in the world there is presumably a longer cut of the sex scene.
Host 2, Erika:
I thought it was pretty great. The first thing I noticed was that they were making creative use of the adaptive equipment that was already in the room, which I think it was both realistic and it felt natural.
Host 1, Jeff:
Totally, totally.
Host 2, Erika:
It was a pretty racy scene. I felt like it wasn’t sanitized or it wasn’t made weird. Essentially disability ceased to exist in this scene.
Host 1, Jeff:
So, when I was watching the scene, all I could think about was the sex scene from Coming Home, obviously John Voight, which was about a decade before this film. Famously, there’s this sex scene, and in that sex scene, in my opinion, it was like, “Oh, this is how they do it.” It felt almost instructional. It was looking in on how the others have sex and it’s like, “Oh, it’s oral for them.”
Obviously, the scene is really actually more about the woman in Coming Home. It’s about her of liberation. Arguably, possibly this is a lesbian sex scene. That’s a whole other body of academic work, but I felt like this is the opposite. Like you said, this felt more a natural this is how people hook up in some ways. There was a bit of a clumsiness to it, but there was still a naturalness to it. There was a fairly long breastfeeding moment that I was like, “This feels a little bit maternal.”
Host 3, Clara:
Yeah, I didn’t read that as maternal in the moment, but now that you mention, it went on.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, he was like suckling.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah. In the moment, I think my mind was like, “At what point does movie sex become porn?” So yes, I was engrossed in that and I think missed the suckling metaphor or is that a metaphor? Symbolism, yeah. Now that you pointed out-
Host 1, Jeff:
Literal action.
Host 2, Erika:
… I can’t unsee that.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah. But then it moves on and it becomes this other thing that they both are willing and enthusiastically involved in. Both of them come at this on level ground, which I think is actually interesting.
Host 2, Erika:
I think when you mentioned the relationship, I think ultimately the sex scene is less about their relationship than it is about his rehabilitation. Yeah, I don’t know if it’s rehabilitation, but I mean she is in this therapy monkey trainer, happens to have a house full of adaptive equipment. Like you said, she does ring a bit like an occupational therapist. Not that OTs have homes full of adaptive equipment.
Host 1, Jeff:
I was about to ask, so do you have a barn of adaptive equipment that you use to train? So that you know exactly what it’s like.
Host 2, Erika:
I mean, I could see in a very highly specialized practice, which she must have had given the cutting edge technology of the day that she had kicking around in her home that she was using to train the monkeys. I bring this up as a bit of a double edged situation, because on one hand, we see it sink back into this very stereotypical, “Oh, he’s regaining his sexuality.” This is the turning point where you can almost predict at that point that he’s going to walk again. He can have sex. He’s totally going to walk again. But on the other hand, just to give it a bit of a more compassionate read, it also is this moment in the movie where we see him more than this.
He gains a whole dimension as a character. He’s often just very glum and all we really see him do is move his head side to side in order to move his joystick. We don’t see a whole lot of emoting other than some monkey infused rage. He comes out of a shell in a way that I think could actually be read as a positive representation of the reality of learning to live in a disabled body, especially with an acquired disability and the positive experience of getting physically close with someone and being able to explore your body and abilities in a different way.
Host 1, Jeff:
I think it really connects with the fact that his other girlfriend, as he understands it, left him because he could not please her. And then he has this inversion where now he’s met a woman that he does please. I think that there’s this good woman, bad woman thing going on. The ex-girlfriend, we know nothing about this person. I think one of my big critiques is I would’ve liked to have known what their relationship was like first before the accident, so to speak. So, that we have a bit of a comparison. Maybe this is actually about him learning how to have a healthy relationship, because all the other women, his mom, the caregiver, and presumably the ex were all not healthy relationships for different reasons, but they were all bad relationships and often bad because the women were “bossy”.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, I think a different podcast could delve deeper into some of the gender representation here.
Host 3, Clara:
Oh, yeah.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah. Lots to be said about it.
Host 3, Clara:
They also did though a decent job of weaving in this unexpected complexity in ways that seemed unintentional, but could have been fully intentional. The fact that they referred to his injury or whatever it is has made him disabled, they referred to it at one point as congenital when they find out that he has two breaks in his spine. So, it’s like they have this big brick shattering accident scene, but it’s also just something that would’ve happened anyway.
Or when he discovers himself and his physical rehabilitation is very much tied to the girlfriend, but a psychological rehabilitation that the getting better from that horrific bag on the head scene was very much the monkey who was the evil character that helped with his psychological rehabilitation. So, there were these interwoven complexities that they just dropped in very, very quietly and didn’t focus in on, but that to me felt actually very worth thinking about.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, it made it better. It made it better because they didn’t just say it. You maybe have just actually latched onto the principle crime that most of the films make that we cover on this podcast is that they try to explain everything. They say outright exactly what they’re trying to tell you and it just is so cringy.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, I mean, this one definitely did that when he had his injury and then the surgeon was announcing, “We have a C-5, blah, blah, blah. Just so everybody knows what we’re dealing with here. This man is paralyzed. He will not be moving limbs below his neck.” So, it was guilty of that to some degree, but yeah, that was really interesting. It almost taps into a proximity to nature trope that there is something less human. He’s working his way back to completely personhood or something.
Host 1, Jeff:
To be a complete person.
Host 2, Erika:
But he had to climb through the monkey to get to the woman.
Host 1, Jeff:
So, I think you brought us to our last thing that I really want to talk about here, which is the science of this film, because the science in this film is wild because Romero both put some effort but also put no effort into trying to build an internal science logic to this film. Where do you guys want to start on the science of this film?
Host 2, Erika:
I guess we could start with the human brain that was very obviously a chicken breast-
Host 1, Jeff:
Classic film trick.
Host 2, Erika:
… being shaved into a serum and then haphazardly injected into the body of the monkey.
Host 1, Jeff:
Which made the monkey smart.
Host 3, Clara:
I just love how exceptionally childish that is, where it’s like, “Okay, we’ve got to find a way to get the human into the monkey. Let’s just do it literally. Let’s just do it this way.” It’s so childish and yet so perfect. I love that.
Host 1, Jeff:
It’s both lazy, but also creative. They weren’t just like, “Oh, it’s a demon,” or “Oh, I zapped it with radiation,” which I think would be the remake if they were to remake this movie now in 2020. It would be radioactive waves or it’s 5G cell phone towers. So, it would be this other technology, but it’s all about injection and contamination. So, it’s both clever, but also that’s not how this works, that you definitely don’t get smarter by injecting brains into people.
Host 2, Erika:
So, we have this bafflingly juvenile concept of science juxtaposed with a dead on critique of academia, because the doctor is going to these extreme measures because he’s under pressure to produce more research.
Host 1, Jeff:
Literally taking a drug, which forces him to stay awake for eight hours, which I think is just meth.
Host 3, Clara:
Yeah, well, the scraping of the chicken breast brain, he was tweaking. That’s clear.
Host 2, Erika:
Oh, yeah. The injection of that meth also seemed a little haphazard, straight to the arm and go.
Host 1, Jeff:
No measurement. It’s fine. Yeah, 100%. And then you have this debate about ethics, and what’s amazing about it is that the scientist friend, Jeff, repeatedly claims the high ground as the moral researcher at this institute, because he’s not torturing or murdering these monkeys like his colleague is, who is a body man. He’s like, “Why aren’t you sending me your dead monkeys? I want to do autopsies on them.” I’m like, “Okay, but you’re also injecting human brain into a monkey.” I don’t know that you can claim the ethical research high ground in this instance.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, I think the last piece around that, just the presence of science in this film was that we have this mad scientist situation happening, but also really sharply juxtaposed with what I’m assuming is cutting edge technology for the mid to late ’80s in terms of the wheelchair, the sip and puff system, the mechanical lifts.
Host 3, Clara:
The voice activated entire house.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, it was rocking Alexa like 30 years before Alexa.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah. So, there was also just a shockingly present embrace of good science also. So, I don’t know if that’s maybe entirely unintentional or maybe there is just commentary on the goods and the evils of science.
Host 1, Jeff:
This was Romero’s first studio film, but if you’re a Romero fan, you’ll know that he often uses the films to critique societal problems, whether it be racism, consumerism, et cetera. These are factors in a lot of his films. There’s definitely this duality, I would say, when used right. Particularly, I would say analog or non-intelligent science, so technologies like the thing that’s holding the book or the complicated phone system that uses punch card in order to auto dial.
These were all seen as good, helpful adaptive technologies, but then technologies like science used by doctors now is a problem, because you have these two doctors, one who’s botched the surgery and ruined his life and stole his girlfriend juxtaposed to this other family doctor who is a man of science, a good doctor who looks deeper than surface. He has a rigor in a way that the other doctor perhaps didn’t. So, it seems like there’s this pivot on the more sentience is involved, the more dangerous the technology is or the worse the outcome.
Host 3, Clara:
It’s noteworthy that he tries a couple things. At the climax of the film when he wants the monkey dead, he tries a couple of things that involve the assistive technology in the house. So, he tries to get a door open, he tries to make a call, but what is it that actually kills the monkey? It is his teeth, right? It’s the most human thing about him, which is his body that is able to crush the monkey and fling it aside.
Host 2, Erika:
Well, guys, we got good and deep into that one. Now I think it’s time to draw back a step and get trivial. Jeff, what do you have for us this week?
Host 1, Jeff:
Okay. So, there’s a lot to talk about on this one because there’s a lot of stuff in this film. It’s also a much bigger film than most of the things we do. So, there’s a lot, and we’re going to miss a ton of it, I promise you. So, obviously, you might remember me from such films as George Romero, obviously well known in the horror community. Night of Living Dead fame, I would say he is maybe the most known. Stanley Tucci might be the most known, most famous in this. This was his first studio film, and there are a lot of references online about how he really did not like the interference of the production company distributor Orion, that sanitized a lot of the original cut, including changing the ending. But we’re going to talk about that a little bit later.
Stanley Tucci, obviously the legend. Joyce Van Patten, who plays the mother, has actually also had a pretty productive career. She’s been in a couple movies, had Marley and Me and Grown Ups, has done a ton of TV cameos. That’s actually what most of the other characters in this film have done. They’ve had long careers of bit parts in TV shows, but many of them are actually still acting, including Jason Beghe our main character.
But more interesting about him is that Jason who plays Allan in the film had an actual horrendous car accident in the 1990s, in 1999.Hhe was in a coma. He was in a hospital, tons of broken bones. He did break his spine, but it got better, I guess. But most importantly, he was intubated and he kept on waking up in the hospital and pulling out the tube which damaged his lungs. So, he attributes his now gravelly voice, which is what got him the job apparently on Chicago PD. He blames that actually on him pulling out the intubation tube repeatedly after his accident. So, he actually is basically living minus the monkey, he is living the life of Allan, which I think is a wild, wild turn of events.
Host 2, Erika:
All right. Let’s get into the equipment facts, because I spent the better part of this film trying to figure out whether this equipment that is seen in the film is legit. To the credit of Romero or whoever on the team was responsible for doing their research, I think they did their research. The industrial looking chain based Hoyer lift that we see throughout the film, I still can’t wrap my mind around the mechanics of this, but Jeff, you did some research and what did you find out?
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, it looks like the frame and the chains that are used to hook into it does appear to be very similar to an Invacare patient lift. That lift looks more like a traditional Hoyer with the bar that you use to brace it up and down. This may be actually an Invacare track lift from back in the ’80s possibly, or it may be something that they cobbled together for cheap where they just got parts of a broken one and put it together. Yeah, apparently, BDSM chain sex devices, big inpatient care back in the 1980s.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah. I mean, there were definitely some inconsistencies. I just cannot figure out how it’s possible that anyone but a walking actor could have hoisted themself up into a sling at such a height to be hovering at standing height over a steaming hot bathtub.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, I don’t understand why they were cooking him like a lobster. Why is he not lowered into the water? Why is he suspended above a full bathtub that is piping hot?
Host 2, Erika:
The other piece of technology that I was really gripped by in this film was obviously the wheelchair. So, Allan has a wheelchair that he operates using a mouth operated joystick. I’m assuming it that just given the complexities of actually using a sip and puff system, learning to use a sip and puff system or even to control a wheelchair with one’s mouth, I’m assuming that the actor was not actually using a functioning system there, but the wheelchair it turns out actually has a bit of a history.
Host 1, Jeff:
Huge history. So, he is in an Everest and Jennings marathon, which is a belt motor wheelchair. It was their hardcore chair. Well, they’re all built for hospital use, but this was the heavy duty one and made for bigger people and had a higher weight range. But Everest and Jennings actually also has a really weird connection within the world of disability in the United States. They were one of the largest equipment manufacturers in the US. They were one of the first companies to mass produce wheelchairs. That all happened until about the 1970s. They were hit with an antitrust suit by the Department of Justice.
Eventually, there was a class action lawsuit because of malpractice and things that they were doing. That was settled out of court in 1984, which was the beginning of the end of their organization. They had a bad ’80s that turned into a worst ’90s, and the brand was eventually sold off. However, their wheelchairs have appeared everywhere, including being used by Franklin Delano Roosevelt. For those of you in the disabilities studies world, it was Everest and Jennings wheelchairs that were predominantly used by Ed Roberts and the Roland Quads in Berkeley, California.
It was also an Everest and Jennings chair that was the first chair that Christopher Reeve used in 1995 after the accident. So, these were a big deal. This is a big deal company that was making chairs that were ended up in the hands of a lot of people on camera, to say the very least, which is interesting given that this was originally a California founded company. Yeah, this is a real piece of disability history here that is represented. Finally, a wheelchair that is not a quickie.
Host 2, Erika:
Right. So, moving on to production fact, we chatted earlier about the fact that the sex scene was intended to be much longer and significantly racier, but was ultimately scaled back for the release. We’ve also alluded to the original ending of the film being changed. Now it’s my understanding that this was not Romero’s decision, but actually the distribution company, was it, that decided that this film needed to have a happier ending, which is really interesting because ultimately this has a huge impact on the disability narrative. We’ve also alluded to the fact that our protagonist, by the end of the film, is no longer paralyzed or is gradually working his way out of paralysis. He has a spinal surgery that presumably reattaches some spinal nerves.
Notably, he became a candidate for that when he willed his hand to move, which was the criteria for candidacy for that surgery. I don’t know if that is a factual criteria. I strongly doubt it. Yeah, so ultimately, it turns out Romero did not actually intend for this to happen. He was not supposed to recover from this accident, but this was the film company or film distributor’s attempt to make this a more appealing film to broader audiences. Very interesting.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, it’s that real drive that we have to see the disabled person walk again at the end. If they’re not going to die, they have to walk again. Although I am a little upset that we did not get a different drummer’s montage at the end of a dead Ella running alongside him. That would’ve just made it so much better at the end.
Host 2, Erika:
So last bit of production facts we have here. So, there was actually some substantial negative publicity around this film. It was actually disability activists that were vocal about the promotional materials or in response to the promotional materials for the film. So, what I initially read in a news article from 1988 was that people were upset about the… I guess in the promotional materials, there was a monkey in a wheelchair.
So, that was the official story from the production company that, “Oh, right away, we will get that out of the publicity campaign.” But what they don’t really get into and what the likes of Paul Longmore actually and other known disability activists were speaking out against was first of all, just the idea of a monkey attendant turning into a monster.
But secondly, there’s a poem, parts of which appear on the film cover and a much longer version of which shows up in this ad campaign. I mean, it starts out there was a man whose prison was his chair. Should we just read the poem? Here it is. Once there was a man whose prison was a chair. The man had a monkey. They made the strangest pair. The man was the prisoner. The monkey held the key. No matter how he tried, the man couldn’t flee. Locked in his prison, terrified and frail, the monkey wielding power, keeping him in jail. The man tried to keep the monkey from his brain, but every move he made became the monkey’s game. The monkey ruled the man. It climbed inside his head. Now as fate would have it, one of them was dead.
Host 1, Jeff:
Spoiler poem.
Host 2, Erika:
Spoiler poem, but honestly misleading. I fully spent this entire film assuming that the monkey was going to eat Allen’s face.
Host 1, Jeff:
It’s odd that they lead with this idea like, “Oh, no, one of them will die. Don’t worry, but which one?” That’s the real drama. But I also feel like this is not representative of really any of the film.
Host 3, Clara:
No.
Host 1, Jeff:
Am I wrong?
Host 2, Erika:
No, you’re not wrong. I mean the bit about the monkey, but the narrative of the poem that Allan is a prisoner, locked in the prison of his chair and the monkey is controlling his fate, that’s just inaccurate. I feel like this is much the altered ending of the film. I feel like this poem also is really targeted to the American imagination that understands disability as a prison, wheelchairs as something that people are confined to. It’s really appealing to that.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah. I wonder if this is a situation where Romero did not make the movie the studio wanted and this is actually the film they really wanted. They actually wanted this film to be about this frail prison. I feel like the studio wanted Rear Window. They wanted that disabled man, trapped, going to die, that he’s disabled. That’s just not what Romero brought them. They were like, “Well, whatever. We’ll just advertise it that way. We don’t care if that’s what it actually is.”
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah. I’m really curious. I felt a little bit torn when I found out that there were renowned disability activists speaking out against the film, which I felt really was not a terrible disability representation. From what I understand, the outcry was actually about the promotional materials more than the film itself. So, that makes me hopeful that maybe folks would’ve felt a little bit more compassionately towards the film than when they did the promotional materials.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, my sense is that the audience response to this is divisive. There are some within the disabled population that think this is a hilarious movie. They love that it’s campy. They think it’s cool and retro and interesting. And then there are others who think that it’s playing on the same tropes. It doesn’t do anything new. It’s all the same old garbage. It’s also a film that was relatively difficult to get your hands on until fairly recently. There’s been a bunch of new releases, Blu-Ray special editions and that thing, which has made it much easier to access, but there was a period in the early 2000s, where it was actually hard to get a copy of it.
So, I think that might also contribute a little bit that the thing that most people had access to was the promotion and not necessarily the film itself, but if you are paying attention, you will notice that parts of this film are both referenced and shown in the documentary Code of the Freaks, which talks about representation of disability in popular culture. So, this movie has had an impact, if nothing else. But I think it’s that time for us to talk a little bit about what we thought. Let’s rate this film.
For those of you who do not know, we have built an empirical, completely scientific, like brains injected the blood scale to determine the quality of our film. Like golf, our little game, the lower the score, the better. We have four questions that we are going to ask each of our viewers to rate on a scale of one to five, and we will determine the quality of the film. So, let’s start up. Our first question on a scale of one to five, with five being the least accurate, five being bad, one being good, how accurate does this film portray disability?
Host 3, Clara:
So, I think there’s some of the things we touched on like the interactions with the mother who was annoying and the surly nurse and there were aspects of his experience that seemed not to be entirely driven by disability alone. He seemed to have some other dimensions there as well. So, I thought that contributed to overall realism and the fact that he used assistive technology comfortably without it being a whole thing in the same way that I’m thinking of different drummer in the piss tube. It was just a little bit more accurate than that.
Host 2, Erika:
I totally agree. I will be so bold as to give it a two.
Host 1, Jeff:
I also gave it a two. I thought that they actually showed real devices, things that people actually do use in their life. So, there was a bit of woe is me, but yeah, I thought there was some accuracy. Obviously, marks are taken off, because this whole double spinal problem that was missed by the one, this is obviously science fiction. The idea that you would not do a surgery unless someone can move a part of their body first to prove that it is in fact this problem also seems highly suspect. Okay. Question number two, scale of one to five, with five being the hardest, how hard was it for you to get through this film?
Host 3, Clara:
Yeah. One, I thought it was smooth sailing, entertaining. There was even some cute monkey moments. It’s little facial expressions. It’s little hugs. That was great.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, I’m largely aligned. I’m actually going to give it a two just for some confusion, for instance, around the science. There was a lot going on there, but generally speaking, yeah, it was a pretty smooth ride.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah. I was also a two in part because I was completely hung up on, “Is his brain influencing the monkey? Is the monkey influencing his brain? Is this telepathy? Why is the blood ritual involved?” Yeah, there were some questions there where I was like, “I do not necessarily,” in a distracted way, because they would add these little tidbits of information that it was like, “Oh, well, that explains it now.” I’m like, “I am even more confused at this point as to what is happening between these two characters.” But this is by far, I would say the best film we’ve watched for this podcast, which is both hilarious and sad.
Host 2, Erika:
I just want to give a quick shout out to Mac and Me, which is somewhat of a contemporary because I think that that was our other probably best. I feel like there’s something about the late ’80s. There was a vibe.
Host 1, Jeff:
Should we even think about the fact that the Roland Quads and the whole stuff in Berkeley was like 1970? And then you guys look at adapt. This is a couple years before ADA has passed. These films are actually perhaps coming out during an American disability renaissance in some ways. So, maybe it’s unsurprising that these are better representations.
Host 2, Erika:
Better but not perfect. So, our next criteria on the scale, one to five, with five being the max, how often did you laugh at things that weren’t supposed to be funny?
Host 3, Clara:
I had more less of laughing at things that weren’t supposed to be funny, finding things adorable that were not meant to be adorable, but laughing at things that aren’t funny, I didn’t do that too much. I thought Romero has a good eye for intentional, funny, shocking. So, I would give it a one or two.
Host 1, Jeff:
1.5 is good.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah, I was in the exact same spot where I found it was a little bit hard to decipher on this. I actually vocalized at one point during the film, “Were we supposed to laugh at that?”, because I felt like sometimes it was actually intended to be funny, even though it was not like haha funny. So, I will join you in the 1.5.
Host 1, Jeff:
Yeah, I’m going to put it as a one. I think that Romero was taking the piss throughout the entire film in some ways. I mean, I think he was trying to play this serious, but it looked serious, which is what makes it funny. I think that was the vibe. I think that we laughed predominantly at the things that were supposed to be funny, I think.
Host 2, Erika:
All right. Our last criteria, on a scale of one to five, with five being the most, how many steps back has this film put disabled people?
Host 3, Clara:
I’m going to give it a low rating again. So, I’m trying to approach this from the lens of someone who just didn’t know anything about disability and I feel like there wouldn’t have been too much in the film that would have really affected that person, Better Sue, the normie, that would’ve been so convincing because the whole movie had an air of lightness to it. Yeah, like Jeff said, taking the piss a little. So, I’m going to give it a one.
Host 2, Erika:
I’m going to have to go a tiny bit harder on it just for the whole stereotypical trope of mad man, man loses his madness and then regains his madness, but really that was pretty much the worst of the crimes it committed. So, I’m going to give it a two.
Host 1, Jeff:
So, I’m going to break the rules right now and I’m actually going to give it two ratings. Rating number one, I’m going to give a two to the Romero cut, which we have not seen which had hardcore sex and no cure at the end, but that is not the movie we received. So, I am going to give the Orion cut a solid three, because yeah, the man stuff, this return to normalcy, and also the very obvious marketing ploy was like, “Oh, babe, yikes.” But I think that Romero cut might have been a one or a two if we had ever got it. So, I’m assuming Romero was listening to this podcast. Please release a director’s cut. The people want to see it.
Host 3, Clara:
The cure at the end was so pointless. Why? I revised my score to a two based on that alone.
Host 2, Erika:
Yeah. I honestly bumped it to a 2.5. I had forgotten about that when I gave it that rating. That’s a serious hit as well.
Host 1, Jeff:
The people have spoken with a score of 23.5. Monkey Shines is officially a Regret, I have a few. Almost an underappreciated piece of art.
Host 2, Erika:
That feels about right to me. All right. Well, that is a wrap. Thank you so much, Clara, for joining us today. It was truly a pleasure to share this bizarre experience with someone else. Hopefully, you are not leaving feeling overly traumatized.
Host 1, Jeff:
That concludes our first episode of season two of Invalid Culture. We hope you enjoyed the episode. As always, if you have a film you’d like us to cover, head over to our website, invalidculture.ca, submit. Or if you would like to be on the podcast as one of our guest victims, please also head over to the website. Send us an email. We’d love to have you on.

 

"Swept Up By Christmas" dvd cover, featuring characters Gwen and Reed standing together before a festive backdrop

Just in time for Hanukkah, a special guest joins Invalid Culture!

In an IC first, Erika and Jeff are joined on our December episode by Paralympic wheelchair racer and budding movie star Josh Cassidy. Together we’ll chat about working in the television/film industry as a disabled person and unpack his recent Hallmark holiday film Swept Up By Christmas. Will Josh’s character find love? Is love the friends we make along the way? Find out in this very special episode!

Listen at…

Podcast Transcript

[Intro song: sleigh bells leading into folk punk song “War on Christmas” by Ramshackle Glory. Lead singer sings “Take down the lights, I don’t do Christmas. Religion is fine, I just hate Christmas.”]

Erika:

Welcome to Invalid Culture, a podcast dedicated to excavating the strangest, most baffling and worst representations of disability in popular culture. Unlike other podcasts that review films you’ve probably heard of, Invalid Culture is all about looking into the abyss of pop culture-adjacent representations that just never quite broke through because, well, they’re awful. I’m your co-host, Erika.

Jeff:

And I am your other co-host, Jeff. And in light of the holiday season, and as proud soldiers in the war against Christmas, this month’s episode is going to be a little different. Today we are joined by a real life Paralympic athlete turned disabled actor, who starred as the wheelchair-using vet, Mike, in a recent Hallmark film, Swept Up by Christmas. That’s right, we are joined by Burgoyne’s most famous son, all-around Bruce County beefcake, Josh Cassidy. Josh, welcome, as our first ever guest ever on this show.

Josh:

(laughing) Thank you.

Jeff:

You’re it.

Josh:

It’s an honor. Number one. That’s what I strive to be.

Jeff:

Number one in my heart. So, Josh, why don’t you tell us a little bit about who are you? Why should people care about Josh Cassidy?

Josh:

Oh my gosh. I don’t know why they should.

Erika:

So, what I’ve got so far is small town, perhaps, actor, Paralympic athlete, and long-term childhood friend of Jeff Preston. And I understand there’s a little bit of a story about how you and Jeff first met, so would you care to share a little bit more about that?

Josh:

Sure, yeah. We met, probably, I must have been nine or 10 years old. My dad was in the military, so we had moved all across Canada nine times… or, eight times in the first nine years of my life. And then, he left the military. We settled in Bruce County, going to elementary school in Port Elgin. Jeff’s dad, who is a police officer, came and spoke to the school, and after the presentation was done and we go back to our classrooms, and there was a knock on the door and he was at the door, and he asked the teacher if I could come out and he could talk to me. So as a nine year old, curious, slightly scared, did I do something wrong? I’m sure entered my mind at some point.

Josh:

But Jeff’s dad is just the most chill, soft spoken guy, and was just super kind, knowing I was just new to the area, and asked if I wanted to meet his son who happened to use a wheelchair as well. And yeah, that’s how our first, I don’t know, playdate or whatever you would call it at that age… I don’t even know what we did the first time, now that I think about it. But I mean, our early childhood was a lot of mini sticks, and video games, and video games, and reading, and Star Wars, and adventures in the… What would you call it? There was a name for the woods behind the town.

Jeff:

Beiner’s Forest.

Josh:

Yeah. So anyways, lots of awesome childhood memories.

Jeff:

I think it’s important to note that you said that our early childhood consisted of those things. I also think our teenager years and our adult years, that it didn’t actually change. We never grew up.

Josh:

It happened until we both left the town. We just lost the town and each other, that was all.

Jeff:

That’s it. That’s it. But as I said, there’s always that open… The invite is always open. If you want to come over for a sleepover, we can get back out on the road and play some hockey again.

Josh:

That would be great.

Erika:

So, how did you end up from small town, Bruce… Is it Bruce County?

Josh:

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Erika:

To the big screen, the Olympic stage.

Josh:

So, I always loved sports as a kid, and as I just mentioned, hockey was a big passion of mine, as it was Jeff’s growing up. And one of the challenges in school was being able to partake in extracurricular sports, and I always found a way to figure out how to adapt, and the schools, especially in that area, Port Elgin and Owen Sound where I grew up at that stage, there was really great teachers that, helped navigate through. But extracurricular, there was more bumps, as health and safety had a lot more restrictions and concerns about other kids getting injured if they knock into your chair or whatnot.

Josh:

So, wheelchair racing was something that was introduced to me as a possibility for track and field in high school, and around the same time as the Sydney Paralympic games. Watched our Canadian, Jeff Adams, power away to medals, and I just was super intrigued by it and thought it looked fun. And so, that’s how I got started.

Josh:

Ironically, in our hometown, I had a chance meeting with a Paralympic coach that was there on business, and he got me connected as well, and that sort of was the beginning of my journey from the small town. I mean, in the small town too, I mean, I had the local track club that was great, but so much of my training throughout most of my career was on my own. And yeah, eventually I went to Sheridan College for illustration, and continued training there, and made my first national team, and yeah, the journey continued.

Erika:

And then, so how long have you been, I guess, doing elite athletics?

Josh:

I started competing around 2000, so 21 years, and my first national team was 2005. I believe it was 2005-6. So yeah, quite a while, now.

Erika:

And how long have you been into acting?

Josh:

Well, the first television commercial stuff that I did was most as an athlete, as myself, or as a wheelchair racer. So that’s how I first got some commercial gigs, and then that progressed to just taking some casting calls for other commercials, which another one was a BMO one, and Suicide Squad, which I was an extra in. And both of those was also some kind of, a little bit of consulting on the disability aspect. And then, yeah, this Swept Up by Christmas.

Josh:

I think they saw, I think the agency saw an audition I did for another show, where I actually played someone pretty much the opposite of my character in Swept Up by Christmas. He was a pretty chip on his shoulder, angry, I think war vet as well, but much different. But anyways, had an audition, and it was really after the fact for most of these that, oh, you’re an athlete as well? And that came about. So, yeah, it’s fun.

Jeff:

Yeah. I noticed that you said you were in Suicide Squad. How did that come together, what was your role, and would the movie have been better if you were the main character, and not Jared Leto?

Josh:

First of all, how did it come about? Oh, well, my mind is on Jared Leto right now.

Jeff:

Who isn’t?

Erika:

You speak for all of us when you say…

Josh:

I was thinking like, honestly, everything I have seen him in, he is fantastic. I have the understanding that there is way more that was shot that was cut. Obviously, that doesn’t change the take on the character, which wasn’t totally his, but it would be interesting to get a full take of what it was.

Josh:

So, I mean, it was crazy. I always, obviously I’ve been into comic books. I mentioned, I went to this school at Sheridan for illustration, and that was really derived from a very early love of superheroes, comic books and drawing, ever since I was a little kid. And so, obviously superhero movies and wanting to take a shot at acting at some point, it was always something just, I thought that would be fun.

Josh:

And I guess I put it out into the universe, and I got this random call the day before flying back from Australia from a training camp, and it was someone who had recommended me, gave me my number for a production that was going on in Toronto for a Warner Brothers movie, that sounded like a superhero movie, all tightlipped, whatever. And of course, I’m a comic book fan, nerd, so I know everything that’s going on and shooting. I’m like, oh my God, I’ve heard these rumors about Suicide Squad. This has got to be what it is.

Josh:

So, I had some conversations, because they’re looking for amputees, contortionists. They wouldn’t give much info beyond that. And would I be interested in having some discussions? So, when I got back, had meetings, and went on set, and they were rehearsing it at that point. And by then, I had figured it out, and they knew that I had figured it out, but they really weren’t allowed to say either. But will Smith was training in the next room for his dead shot rolls, and went into the room where Margot Robbie does her, where the very first opening scene where she’s like in a cage, tension area, right, as Harley Quinn. So, seeing that set up go, and man, just the scale of this thing is like, these big productions, that was just eye opening for me.

Josh:

So, the character was to be, well, it was going to be what eventually to me was probably the worst part of the movie, which was the basically sort of zombified. I don’t even remember. They’re like, yeah, zombified kind of super soldiers, these sort of black things that just you could kill, chop and arm a leg off, they’d keep fighting, type of thing. For me, even though I’m in a wheelchair, it was like, we need some double A gams, people that are athletic, that could maybe do some stunt work. So for me, I played goalie, as Jeff knows, on my knees in road hockey, and so my legs can bend all over. So basically, I had to strap my legs up as if they were amputated. The intention was for the shot was like, I would have, I would be basically blown apart and then keep on fighting from the ground.

Josh:

So then, I also helped with them consulting, bringing some other athletes that I knew that were amputees, and try to help recruit a team of these soldiers that would be blown to bits, but then keep on fighting. And rehearsed for one or two big scenes, and the one scene was shot during the national championships, which I was contracted to do, so I missed that one. And then, the other scene was literally on the last day of filming, and it was an all night film shoot. It was a week before the Pan Am games in Toronto.

Josh:

And yeah, again, just the scale was just incredible. It was like, it’s this massive lot, and it just really hit home. When you watch a movie, at the end, all of the credits that scroll, and all of those people, those are all humans with faces and lives that play a huge role, each and every single one, to make this whole thing come together. And then, when you’re on such a big production, you see all these faces and all this stuff that goes in, and the organization and network. It’s incredible.

Josh:

So anyways, long story short, my scene in the end, the ones that I rehearsed for, I didn’t shoot. The ones that I did were, it’s sort of the scene, and I think it’s even in the trailer, where Will Smith’s on this car. All these like zombie super soldier, black Uzi things are coming at him. And, do you want me to tell you the story of what I shot?

Jeff:

I was just going to say, did Will Smith kill you?

Josh:

So, unfortunately, Will Smith was shooting on that same day, because they were doing all these last minute reshoots, so it was a stunt actor that did, that shot me.

Jeff:

So, you were killed by the symbolic Will Smith?

Josh:

Yes, the fake one. They recreated this street, and everything is on fire, and they recreated part of the gardener that was crashed and down on this lot. And basically, they’re all just rushing towards this car that will Smith is on to attack him. And it’s basically like a football charge, rush the quarterback scenario.

Josh:

But for me it’s like, my legs are blown off, so I’m not in that first part. I’m after he starts unleashing. And they’re like, okay, so what we’re doing here is, they’re all going to be rushing. We need you to hide under this car, okay? Now, they’re going to be rushing. I want you to look at me. We’re going to count down the steamboats. One steamboat, two steamboat. They’re going to rush, and then you crawl, but you don’t go earlier than that, because they’ll just run right through you. And they’re like all parkouring through cars and everything, right? But don’t be late, because we’re blowing up this car that you’re under, so you want to get out of there.

Josh:

So, I’m crawling, and this is like a week before the Pan American Games, and my national team would have killed me if they knew. I was nervous myself. Oh shit, what did I do? And yeah, you’re crawling over broken glass and there’s fire and explosions going on. And anyways, they sort of like, kills everyone, and I’m one of the last ones, and I go back to shoot him again, and there’s this sort of 300 scene that’s filmed from the stop where there’s just all these dead soldiers, and I go to try and pop one more in him and he shoots me.

Josh:

But anyways, so much of that film is cut. I don’t… I can point out myself if I saw it. It’s a blink of an eye. So much of that film, from what I understand, like David Ayer a has done so many grounded movies, like End of Watch and Fury. And so, the take that it went, you can tell where the studio went in and was like, ooh, I think zombie soldiers and the Enchantress character… And I don’t know whose was whose idea, but there was just a disconnect from such a grounded thing that was happening, and something else. But anyway, that’s my Suicide Squad story.

Jeff:

And probably bad if you had died under that car in real life, we should say.

Josh:

Yeah.

Jeff:

That’s good. That’s good that you weren’t late.

Josh:

The stories that these stunt actors just casually tell was just crazy, the stuff. Oh yeah, hey, check out this one. This is where I was driving this F-1 car and I had to, the car, the wheel blows, so then I have to drive into this semi-truck. And it’s like, this is a car accident where people get killed and it’s like, this is their day job. It’s nuts. Yeah.

Erika:

You’re hitting some interesting themes that have come up in past episodes.

Josh:

Oh, yeah?

Erika:

Yeah. We’ve talked a bit about stunting, or I guess, who’s this stunt work, but also consulting. So, the first movie, the very first episode that did when we were researching a bit about the film, we found out that there was actually a hired disability consultant. And then, our more recent, Mac and Me, we learned that the disabled actor who was hired for the lead role, we learned through the audio commentary that he had consulted a lot on the film. So was that, is that… I’m just curious about your experience with consulting and what that was like.

Josh:

Yeah. I think all three, it was like I was hired as an actor or a stunt, and those bigger ones that I had mentioned. But I mean, all were extremely, let us know. What do we need to do? What’s right? What’s wrong? What can we do to make things easier, help? So, they were all very receptive and took some initiative on some fronts to try and do things, and on other fronts were like, oh yeah, we totally failed here. Please tell us what to do. So the way I was approached, I really appreciated it a lot.

Josh:

And the BMO commercial, that was one as well where it was like, waitlists, and so there was some messaging there that kind of conflicted with me, that I think they were pretty appreciative of, because basically in the commercial it’s like this. You put in your wish, and so the commercial’s like, my wife wishes that I can basically not be confined to my wheelchair, right? And it wasn’t those words exactly, but it was very much that was the vibe.

Josh:

And I was like, listen, I don’t wish that I wasn’t in a wheelchair. I mean, it would be great and cool to walk and run and jump and do all these things, but this is who I am, and it’s brought me so many good things, and I’ve accepted that. So, it wouldn’t be my wish, so if it was her wish, that would be kind of weird. But it was more like, you know what I wish? I’m like, I actually wish I could fly. So, why don’t we change this messaging to just being like, I wish that I could fly, and my wife wishes to see me be able to have the freedom of flight kind of thing. So kind of, the sentiment is there, but it’s a total different angle on the whole thing, right?

Jeff:

Yeah. I’ve got to say, when I first saw you on commercial, at the start of it, from the music, and you’re up in the plane, and I was like, oh hamburgers, here we go, right? This is going to be that classic thing about oh, if only I had one wish, I wish he was cured.

Josh:

Yeah.

Jeff:

But then you get this like actual, nice inversion at the end, where it’s like, yeah, no, the wish wasn’t liberation from the chair, the wish was to do something wild. It was…

Josh:

That everyone would love to do, right? Yeah.

Jeff:

Yeah. Now, I have a theory. You’ve been in a couple BMO commercials, and so I now call it the BMO-verse.

Josh:

I’m pretty sure it’s called the BMO effect, isn’t it?

Jeff:

The BMO effect? Maybe. Yeah. That’s true. So, I’ve noticed in the BMO-verse, you have a wife in the wishes, but you are definitely out with another woman during a solar eclipse, or a lunar eclipse.

Josh:

Here is the confusion, okay?

Jeff:

Okay.

Josh:

It wasn’t me in both of them. I mean, it was me as an actor, but in the BMO-verse, right? Me with my wife was one character. It was actually Mike from Swept Up by Christmas, that’s in the background having a latte with that other woman. So, it’s really Mike that’s… I don’t know in the BMO-verse if that’s before or after he met his Swept Up by Christmas… Vanessa, was her name.

Jeff:

Vanessa, yeah.

Josh:

I’m just trying to remember her name.

Jeff:

You don’t remember the love of your life?

Josh:

Yeah.

Jeff:

Wait, are you saying you are not with Vanessa on the west coast right now?

Josh:

Listen, I don’t know where the BMO-verse version of Mike slipped into that dimension and stream, so I don’t know if it was before or after Vanessa, so I can’t comment. Mike might be a closet sleazebag, like oh yeah, another latte, with another woman, kind of thing.

Jeff:

Let’s go out with the solar eclipse.

Josh:

Yeah.

Jeff:

Lose your sight, but I’ll take care of you, baby.

Josh:

Yeah.

Erika:

So, two things here from me. One, and I don’t know if this question’s out of bounds, but…

Josh:

No.

Erika:

Are BMO and Hallmark the same thing?

Josh:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erika:

They have overlapping universe?

Josh:

Oh, there’s a question.

Jeff:

I’ll say, nothing says Christmas like a bank. I think we can all agree on that, right?

Erika:

Now, I’m just thinking of, they have Interact commercials now where you can use your internet cards the way people used to drop coins into the charity tins. Now they have Interact commercials for that.

Jeff:

This is all coming together, guys. I feel like, I think this podcast is done. We sorted it out.

Erika:

Wait, wait, wait. We don’t know anything about the film yet. It’s time to get into Swept Up by Christmas.

Jeff:

Oh yeah, we should talk about that.

Josh:

Right, right.

Erika:

Josh, please, can you tell us, for listeners who haven’t seen the film, tell us a little bit about that film.

Jeff:

Basically, a Hallmark movie, Christmas movie. There’s a guy and a girl, and someone’s not in the Christmas spirit. Someone gets them in the Christmas spirit, and then they live happily ever after right at the end.

Josh:

Oh, was I in this one?

Jeff:

So, who are you? And who are you in all this?

Josh:

So, Swept Up by Christmas is basically, she’s an antique dealer, and the main character, lead male is a war vet who has a cleaning business. They meet on the sale of this estate, and yes, it’s about her bringing him back into the Christmas spirit. I am the main lead’s friend and business partner, named Mike, who is also a war vet. And yeah, basically they have this little business that helps war vets adjust to civilian life, and their cleaning business is their little passion thing, and then there’s a little side romance interest for Mike in the movie.

Erika:

And it’s the aforementioned Vanessa?

Josh:

Oui. C’est vrai. This is a bilingual podcast.

Jeff:

Yeah, it is. It is now. So, one thing that we love to do on this podcast is, we love to see what others have to say about the film. And so, we went out. There were not a lot of reviews, I have to say. Fans of the show, you are not doing your job. There were not a lot of reviews about this movie. But there was one really interesting thing that I learned. Actually, there were two interesting things. Thing number one, I learned there a lot of people writing reviews of every single Hallmark Christmas movie. It is like a whole community, and that is a thing that I didn’t know I needed to know, but I know it now, and I feel better.

Jeff:

But there were two reviews that really caught my eye. A lot of the reviews of this film felt that maybe the main romance was a little flat in nature. However, both on a website called Jamie’s Two Cents, and as well, a website called Lifetime Uncorked, two different reviewers said that they would have preferred if the story instead had been focused on Mike and Vanessa. An Amazon reviewer even went on to say, quote, “I gave this an extra star, four out of five stars to Hallmark, for adding the storyline featuring someone in a physically challenging role. And yes, it’s a formula movie, but I have to admit, I’m a fan of Hallmark’s Christmas movies.”

Jeff:

Now, I’m assuming that was a typo, and they meant physically challenged, but I will allow you to respond to movie guy on Amazon. Would you say your role was physically challenging?

Josh:

Oh, I don’t care.

Erika:

I mean, relative to the other work you described, that sounded like very physically challenging work.

Josh:

You know what, it was long days. The physically challenged… Suicide Squad was pretty physically challenging. And actually, the BMO was a stunt commercial as well. But you know what, it was a really great experience learning-wise for me, and lines and a whole role, and the long days and weeks that all went into that, and the process. Yeah, I mean, obviously Mike is in a wheelchair, so on the consulting side for this, they were more just really open, like what do you need on set?

Josh:

For the script itself, I had one or two kind of adjustments or amendments that I kind of put forward. I can’t remember the first one. The second one… I mean, there was definitely the one, I think it was, when he’s talking about his disability, and how it crushed his, I think it was C4 or something, right? Well, so I am partially paralyzed from L4 down, L3, L4. So I said, if this is integral to the story, I would have to change my level of ability and what I can do to represent if that’s important. If it’s not important, we change the script so that this is where I was injured, so that it’s accurate. So, I had to go through Hallmark and their writers, and their writers, and their writers, and it all got approved, and of course, move ahead, and yeah.

Jeff:

And I’ve got to say, that is something that is always, I’ve found, so strange about films, is that it’s like disability is this throwaway. Like, they don’t actually care if the definition or diagnosis is at all even close, right? They’re just like, I don’t know, C1, maybe. Oh, it looks like muscular dystrophy, I don’t know. And yet, the person is fully walking around with like a little limp.

Josh:

Oh, here’s the thing, though, here’s the thing. To be fair to them, if I’m thinking about these writers, and they’re churning these things out, it’s like, get the script written, throw something in. Let them hire someone else to do… Let’s check our disability accuracy facts here and consult someone that knows what’s going on. But yes, there isn’t always those people in place to catch these types of things, and agreed, it’s kind of thrown in at times. And I was super grateful for this role and this opportunity, and of course, there has to be something that ties in. For me, okay, that’s the reality, and like the other auditions I’ve done, somehow their physical disability is a part of their character. I mean, it’s a part of everyone’s life who has a disability.

Josh:

But at the same time, I mean, I’m not going off on some acting career crusade. I would love to do something with a lot more depth or whatever. But I’d also love to do something where it’s like, the disability part doesn’t even come up, too. Like, I would just, I’d like to take the Rock’s role in some action movie and try and do a better acting job, and bring something that’s great without actually having to delve too deeply.

Josh:

At the same time, I know all stories and drama are about going through challenges and heartbreak and an emotional component, and most people who have a disability have gone through that at some stage, so that’s a real part that people with a disability can connect with to portray that more realistically, too. So, I also appreciate that they’re seeking out more often people with disabilities, rather than trying to have an actor portray them.

Josh:

And again, on the flip side, because I’m both, I just, to bring full perspective, I don’t think there’s anything totally immoral about somebody who doesn’t have a disability playing someone with a disability completely, myself. Acting is roleplaying and diving into a character, and that might be someone of a different ability or a disability, or gender, or culture, whatever it is, however, with Hollywood and the way it is. It’s just like, okay, we’ve had enough of white mainstream playing other cultures and disabilities and whatever. It’s like, we have a huge demographic here that is not represented, and it’s time to kind of bring them into the fold. So, at least it feels like there’s that progression.

Jeff:

Yeah. I think honestly, Hallmark, I think, gets a lot of kudos for this film, and other films as well. I think Hallmark has actually kind of latched on to disability in a way I think others haven’t. But having said that, Erika and I have some questions. We have some questions for you about this film.

Josh:

I thought you were going to go on the LGBTQ, how there isn’t representation there.

Erika:

Oh, and that’s funny. It’s funny, that’s not how I would have phrased that. I wouldn’t have phrased it that way. I was just going to say, this is the most remarkably cis-heteronormative story I have seen ever in my life. And I want to say, this was also my first ever Hallmark Christmas movie.

Josh:

Same.

Erika:

Okay. Okay. And that just really stood out for me.

Josh:

I hear it all the same. I am only aware of this because I was involved in one, so then I was reading all the headlines of backlash, of there is no other kind of alternative storylines with representation. And so, anyways. I mean, we joked on set when we were reading this, like hey, I think we should actually really put a plot twist in there, and just be like, hey, Mike and his best friend, I forget what his name is already, Justin Bruening’s character, we’re actually lovers the whole time. Because we actually showed up to the party with the same sweater and the same pants. So we were like, maybe I slept over and I took something from his closet, and that’s literally our coming out of the closet together. And we just helped Hallmark take care of another area. Maybe they’re doing one this year. I don’t know. I don’t know. There’s probably 12 new ones.

Jeff:

Erika, I will say…

Erika:

This is a hard flash forward to a question I had, which is, will we get a sequel, perhaps titled Moved by Hanukkah? And then, you know, at the time, I think we were curious about maybe exploring your budding relationship on the west coast, but I really like where you’re taking this.

Jeff:

I fully agree.

Josh:

Maybe that’s the big plot twist. I go out with Vanessa to the west coast, and it’s like, no. I miss Reed. That was his name. And yeah, we really explore a lot more things out west.

Jeff:

I’ve got to say, your scenes together, I felt, were electric. I feel like there was something there. I fully do.

Josh:

It was fun.

Jeff:

So, I endorse it.

Josh:

He was, it was great to work with other people, both… I mean, Vanessa’s character, she has a big stage background, but both of the leads have been in lots of shows and movies and have a full acting career, so it was actually really great to feed off of them and their experience, and how relaxed they were, and also their approach, too. Like here, I’m looking at the script like, man, what do I do with this? And realizing that was the same for everyone. It’s like, okay, these movies are cheesy cardboard cutter, similar plotlines. People love them. That’s why they keep making them. But then it’s like, how do we try and bring something that feels real and authentic somehow to this? Anyways, it was good to experience that.

Erika:

I would just comment, you did not stand out as a lesser caliber actor. In fact, a decent part of the way through, I think I said you are by far my favorite character in this film.

Josh:

Oh, thank you. Well, thanks. Thank you.

Jeff:

I was biased. Erika was not.

Erika:

No!

Jeff:

So, that’s an authentic take.

Erika:

Yeah. So, recruiters out there, you have got some serious potential here in Josh Cassidy.

Josh:

Oh, thank you.

Jeff:

Absolutely.

Josh:

Thank you. I’d love to do something else again.

Jeff:

Now, I do have a bone to pick with you, though.

Josh:

Go for it.

Jeff:

So, throughout the film, your character seems to have this object fixation. In almost every scene, you are holding something, whether it’s a coffee cup, or a champagne glass, or a pen, or a pot. Your hands are always occupied.

Josh:

Interesting.

Jeff:

What’s the backstory on Mike’s need to have his hands occupied?

Josh:

Well, really, my hands were actually separately contracted. They are their own actors.

Jeff:

Right. It was in their rider.

Josh:

So, they have their own rules, their own contracts. Like, he’s playing the writer, he’s playing the champagne glass holder. And so, they had their own things that they had to do. One of them had to have a makeover, because the one is tattooed. So, my wonderful makeup artist did an amazing job covering it up. So, maybe that’s not equal representation. Maybe there’s something that isn’t fully exposed in its authentic nature there. But you know what? There’s a role to play. My hands were down. They signed the line, and they did their job.

Jeff:

Yeah, I was trying to think back into our past, if you often had things in your hands when we were friends.

Josh:

No. I mean…

Jeff:

I feel like you do have an average, you’re an average thing in hand person, I would say.

Erika:

Yeah, that’s it.

Josh:

I don’t think I’m over the top. It’s like, the marker, I’m drawing on the board, so I’ve got to have it. The mug, I’m taste testing, so hey, I have to be interacting. The champagne glass just got shoved to me, like hold this, you’re drinking champagne, it’s a party. But you know what, maybe it’s just that my hands were such great actors, it was like, you’re just drawn to them, like oh my god, those are their own roles happening on this film. So, you know what, I’d like to see what roles they have in the future.

Jeff:

It’s true. Yeah. You can’t question the artist, right?

Josh:

No, that’s right.

Jeff:

The artist just knows what to do.

Josh:

Yeah.

Erika:

You mentioned sampling drinks, and correct me if I’m wrong, but was this from the scene with barista Vanessa, and there was a bit of a remarkable moment there, or a memorable moment there. The conversation takes a little bit of a detour.

Josh:

Right. I know what you’re talking about.

 

[Clip begins from “Swept Up By Christmas”]

Mike:

Maybe a little travel thrown in for good measure.

Vanessa:

I haven’t had the chance for that yet, but I mean, I’d love to. I started working when I was 16.

Mike:

I joined the army young, too.

Vanessa:

But you got to travel a lot?

Mike:

Not as much as I would have liked. I was quartermaster in Afghanistan, and I went out on a supply run. An RPG overturned my transport and crushed my L4. So, travel plans were postponed. I came home to Windale, and a year later met Reed at the VA, and like so many, we needed a do-over. So, let’s get to the good stuff. Yuletide first, right?

 

[Clip ends]

Erika:

I’m sharing Jeff’s observation here, that your character comes a little bit out of left field with this disability origin story.

Josh:

Yes.

Erika:

So, can you tell us, was that intended? Was that something that you asked for, or had questions about?

Josh:

It was in the script. That was a part that was changed a bit, because I had the disability part. The other line part was changed in there, and I don’t remember what it was off the top of my head. But I had a lot of conversations with the director, Philippe, who was just awesome, and it was like, okay, this is Mike’s kind of moment. He tells his story, and it’s obviously, it feels shoved in, but it actually, if it holds weight, then it can be an emotional hook or whatever, to give him some depth into understanding who he is a bit. Okay, obviously it’s a bit forced, and all of the sudden in the background, but it’s about traveling, and okay. He also closes it with sort of, I’m getting sidetracked here.

Josh:

So, on one hand, it was sort of like, okay, he just got sidetracked going off into a story. On the other hand, that’s totally what it was, was how do we put this in here to give some weight. So, I mean, it was… you know what, I didn’t have a big problem with it. It was fun, and it was challenging, because in this one, all of the sudden, line-for-line, and then I got a monologue with this little story, and you go through all in one take. One sentence is happy, then it’s expressing good memories, then it’s like, I lost my legs, but hey, everything is okay. And it’s like this sort of way that I had to try and…

Josh:

I think what was on, there wasn’t anything left on the cutting room floor, but the take, I liked the take much better, and I remember that I finished a full take, and they said cut, and everyone who was on set kind of applauded it. So, I know I did a good job with it because it was taking on this whole thing. But yeah, I also didn’t want it to just end like, oh, nevermind that, too. I kind of wished that it could have gone on longer, but I’m like, you know what, that’s what a supporting character is, is trying to inject a little something, but it’s not really about you, too. So, I don’t know.

Jeff:

Contrary to the reviewer’s desire.

Josh:

Right. Yeah. They did do one Hallmark last year. I can’t remember her name. Maybe you know here. She was like, she won an Emmy, from Oklahoma.

Jeff:

I do. Ally.

Josh:

Yeah.

Jeff:

Yep.

Josh:

Did you see that one? Because I never saw it.

Jeff:

I have not. I wanted to come to your film as a purist, so I actually am never going to watch another hallmark movie ever again.

Erika:

Save it.

Jeff:

Not because they’re bad, but because I’m a Josh Cassidy purist. So, Hallmark, if you want my money, you need more Josh Cassidy. That’s the deal.

Josh:

I mean, exactly.

Jeff:

Yeah. The Josh-verse, in the Hallmark world. Yeah, I think that Lennard Davis talks a lot about how, as soon as disability is in the film, there’s this mandatory explanation of it. Like, that disability can’t just exist. It has to be grounded, it has to be situated, and that tends to come in these sort of origin stories. And so, obviously your character gets an origin story, but we don’t really get an origin story from Reed. Was it… The only way we know that Reed is a soldier is because he uses soldier talk at the end of sentences sometimes.

Josh:

Like, I’m supposed to be… Those feel forced to me, these little soldier talk force-ins. And I’m like, I grew up in the military. I know people in the military, and there’s some things that are naturally a part of it, and there are other things that feel kind of forced. But agreed, there is backstory with him, but you’re trying to work it out through the whole film and piece it together. Because as a supporting actor to him and his best friend, I’m trying to piece together, oh, this line. So, this means he had a past relationship, and oh, he left the military at this stage. So it’s like, after it you kind of piece together who he is, rather than just getting it, right?

Jeff:

It’s a slower burn. Yeah, it’s a much slower burn.

Josh:

But I wanted to, yeah. I mean, what was your feeling on it, though? On me…

Erika:

We had a, definitely I think we had the experience. We watched the films together. And we definitely had the experience of trying to piece together the backstory of that character, and we had a theory running for a while that there was a plot coming with him having PTSD. And because we, against the backdrop of these hyper gender roles, he was showing a little more emotionality than might have been expected.

Josh:

Yeah, yeah.

Erika:

And so, we thought maybe that’s where that was going to foreshadow. And you know, maybe that was there. Maybe, I don’t know if you can…

Josh:

I mean, I feel like it was, but at the same time, that’s probably why they fell flat too. Like, oh no, Justin’s this perfectly chiseled, good-looking guy. But I mean, that would have made it more interesting if they actually side plotted a little bit to more like PTSD, because that’s what he was trying to show and put through a little bit, obviously, from these little tics and attitude and all of that, right?

Erika:

That’s the future Hollywood film though, right? That busts out of the Hallmark universe.

Josh:

Right, yeah. That’s too far. And also why the brush off at the end of my store. Like, yeah, my back got crushed, but anyways, back to our Christmas story, you know? This is emotional. Don’t get too emotional. We got it.

Jeff:

It was a really, yeah. I felt like, I was like, whoa, things just got hyper serious for a split second, and then was like, back on with the program. And I’m like, I get it. This is supposed to be a movie about love and romance, and kind of softcore, in some ways. You have this titillating dialogue back and forth, right?

Josh:

Yeah, agreed. It is kind of, it is rushed, but you just try and do what you can with it. I got… I mean, maybe it’s also just in our position, because I did get messages from other people that were like, this part, that was so good, or that was really convincing, and whatever, whatever. So, yeah, I know that we’re probably so much more hyperaware of it, too, in our positions.

Jeff:

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the moral of the story is, if you’re on a date and the partner brings up travel, your best bet is to follow it up with how, on the last time you were traveling, your spine was crushed after an IED attack. Love is in the air. Now, I’ve got to know, was your character always intended to be a wheelchair user?

Josh:

Yes.

Jeff:

Or did you get the role, and they were like, oh, wheelchair user?

Josh:

No, no. It was intended, yeah.

Jeff:

Cool.

Josh:

And I mean, what I appreciated about the director too was, he’s telling me about one of his friends who also uses a wheelchair, and was describing him and who he is and mindset, and all that kind of stuff. And it was one of the early discussions that we had. I’m like, how recent did Mike get paralyzed? Because that changes how I would portray the character, as well. Like, is he still working through this? Is he whatever? And he’s like, no, no, this is done with. He’s dealt with it. He’s happy. He’s good. What you kind of brought just naturally in our first talk interview before even reading the script is the type of energy and mindset that I want to give this character. So, it wasn’t too much diving crazy. It was more of accentuating certain things for myself to try to bring to it, then. But yeah, so I mean, conversations like that, I appreciated, because that changes totally a character’s perception or how they’re portrayed.

Erika:

So, I don’t know if you guys are familiar with the Fries test?

Josh:

No.

Erika:

Jeff most likely is, but for Josh, for the audience, and Jeff, correct me if I’ve got this wrong, but as I understand, the Fries test is testing essentially the quality of disability representation in media.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Erika:

So, it’s based on, I believe it’s based on a gender test.

Jeff:

Yeah, the Bechdel test.

Erika:

Bechdel test, okay, which the questions are basically like, does the work have, in the gender test, does the work have at least two women in it? Do they talk to each other? And if they talk to each other, do they talk about something other than a man?

Josh:

Right, right, right.

Erika:

Right? And so, the fries test, which I presume is named for Kenny Fries?

Jeff:

Kenny Fries, yeah.

Erika:

Asks, does the work have more than one disabled character? Do the disabled characters have their own narrative purpose, other than the profit of a non-disabled character? And is the character’s disability not eradicated by curing or killing? And this is why I would…

Jeff:

And this movie passes!!!

Erika:

It does! That’s where I was going with the PTSD trope, was that I think it’s implied enough that Reed has PTSD that we could say that we have two disabled characters, who are interacting, who have their own narrative purpose, and neither of them is cured or killed.

Josh:

Right. Wow.

Jeff:

Exactly. Absolutely. I honestly, like I said, from the very beginning, hat tip to Hallmark, I think, on this test.

Josh:

Yeah.

Jeff:

I mean, say what you will about Christmas movies, but I think this was a really progressive film, when it comes to disability representation. Not where I thought I would find it, but here we are.

Josh:

Yeah. No, it’s great. It’s great. Especially a company like that, that does so many movies and has so much pull, and is so mainstream. Like, I didn’t even realized how much it was playing in other countries until this year when it came out. So, it’s great, and I hope that, I know they’ll make another dozen or two dozen this year, so I hope they’re doing more that are continuing that trend and with other minorities, as well.

Erika:

I think you’ve already spoken to this a bit, but just to name the question and hear an answer, what do you think this film got right?

Josh:

Hmm. Okay. Well, on the production side, everyone was just fantastic. They did their best to accommodate, whether it was putting in ramps or figuring things out for accessibility, and where there wasn’t, they just constantly were like, if you need anything, let us know. If we’re doing something wrong, or you need something better or different, let us know. And then, the amendments with the script. They took my feedback. They amended that to keep accuracy. And I can’t remember what the other point was on sensitivity, so you know what, it was a great experience from that perspective.

Josh:

And then, yeah, from the film, I mean, I don’t know. People love it. It’s your typical Hallmark Christmas, light. I mean, that’s what it is. That’s what it’s supposed to be. That’s why people watch them so much. We’re in a time where there’s so much stress and so many weird, crazy, horrible things going on, and people turn this on to just have something that’s a feel-good movie. So, they obviously got that right, and had some good emotional little hooks and things that made it a cute little story. So, yeah, it was a good experience, and great to have that opportunity to be a part of.

Jeff:

Well, what would you say is something that you would hope that other productions could learn from this film? Were there any innovations in the way the you filmed it using the wheelchair, or things that you learned in the production process that you’re like, yeah, I hope that filmmakers actually carry this forward?

Josh:

You know, the same parallels to my childhood and school and gym class, with teachers that got it right, as they did with this work experience. It’s basically just people asking questions, what do you need? And being receptive and listening, and just trying to do whatever is possible to make things accessible, and just feel normal and smooth without any barriers. So, taking the initiative on the first part is appreciated, even if it’s gotten wrong. If there’s an intention and effort, that’s always appreciated. And it’s being receptive and checking in. Often, they checked in more than enough with me with things. It definitely makes you feel comfortable. You never have to really worry about anything, and that’s what’s fantastic.

Josh:

Some of the harder things are what’s in advance, a set to prove, and they haven’t quite thought of, oh, jeez, this is on the third flight of stairs, and we had to overcome something like that. But you also realize the position too, and things are going to be missed, because it’s not all about the supporting character per se either. So, when it comes up and it’s realized, what action do you take, and how do you adapt and try to amend it? So, as long as that’s the approach, I don’t think you can ever go wrong or be at really any fault.

Erika:

And maybe lastly, thinking back on some of your experiences and this move from athletics towards the big screen, do you have any advice for young disabled actors who are maybe trying to break into that industry?

Josh:

Jeez, I don’t know. I don’t really actively pursue too much. Like, I see casting calls, things come my way. I respond to them. Obviously, all these things about accessibility, I don’t think you need to go over again. Just voice if you need something. I think the general narrative for actors with disabilities is how they’re represented, and speaking up if there’s something that you feel is better changed. And otherwise, it’s just doing what you do. You don’t have to do anything different, just making sure that you’re being treated yourself with the role that you feel you should play.

Josh:

And I mean, hopefully I would just like to, like I said, see more where you know that obviously there’s going to be a lot of stories. I want to see stories more too where there’s people that go through some challenge or injury or disability with a hook, and that doesn’t just have to be a full, lifetime thing. That could be a like a sports injury. Those are stories about overcoming adversity and resiliency, but my life day to day every day isn’t constantly some of those major hurdles and challenges at this stage, either. I just want to go have fun and play a role with the character depth that’s obviously formed at its base from some experience, but there’s a lot more layers and a lot more things to be explored, where… I’m looking forward to the day where, yeah, we see some people in roles where there doesn’t actually have to be anything about their disability that needs to even be talked about, because there’s enough other depth there that’s brought to the character’s story.

Jeff:

Yeah. I think that’s so true. But unfortunately, on this podcast, you are not going to find those movies. That is not what we are in the business of, my friend.

Josh:

Yeah.

Jeff:

We’re here for the filth.

Josh:

Yeah, the filth. Yeah, I’m sorry I didn’t have too much dirt to dish. I mean, the hiccups that happened were so minor, and so I’m grateful for my experience and the people I was with. But it’s obviously things like this podcast which helps bring light to it, and which has brought like to these things, which made my experience better. And there’s still a lot more out there where I hear of other experiences that are not the same. So, great to bring awareness, for sure.

Jeff:

Yeah. Shout out to Hallmark. We’re going to carry your water. I might actually watch another Hallmark Christmas movie in your honor.

Erika:

And I’m waiting for the Hallmark Hanukkah.

Josh:

Yes.

Jeff:

I will gladly watch a Hanukkah movie. Let’s do it, Hallmark.

Josh:

Good luck with that.

Jeff:

I mean…

Erika:

Why, Hallmark? Why are you allowing Adam Sandler to own this niche?

Josh:

Yeah.

[Outro music: folky punk riff with horns and guitars from Ramshackle Glory’s “War on Christmas”]

Jeff:

And thus concludes the first half of season one of Invalid Culture. I hope you have been enjoying your time with us. We have certainly enjoyed watching and talking about some horrible films. If you like us and you want to give us a little Christmas present, why don’t you head on down, give us a little like or a comment on Apple music, or wherever it is you get your podcasts. But perhaps most importantly, a heartfelt and legitimate happy holidays, best of luck, and just a moment of peace and quiet to all of you over the winter break. We will see you all back in the new year, January, with another great episode of Invalid Culture. Take care, and we will talk to you soon.